[MD] What is 'Plains-spoken' to you?

[Joseph Maurer]

On Sunday 6 April 2008 9:26 PM Dan writes to Everyone:
 
<snip>
>
> Krimel said:
> I'm not so sure that words _are_ ideas or that they determine ideas in the way
you suggest. Rather I would hope that ideas determine what words we use and that
the words we use modulate the tone or shade the meaning of the ideas we express.
>
> Matt:
> Ah! Finally, a strictly philosophical topic. What is an idea if not words? I
think the idea that ideas are pre-linguistic is a remnant of SOM. But I'm not
sure I have the ingenuity to go from here in a convincing manner.
 
Dan:
An idea is a symbol or a concept that isn't necessary to put into words. An
image, a sound, or even an odor could be an idea, or at least the germ of an
idea. In the latter sense, ideas are pre-linguistic or perhaps under certain
circumstances meta-linguistic might be a better way to put it. Some images
go beyond words. Remember when (The Artist Formerly Known As) Prince took an
unpronouncable symbol as his legal name?
 
Fcusing on the meta-linguistic aspect of symbolic imagery might allow us to
view art, mathematics, and even quantum theory as second cousins... kissing
cousins, even. I think Joe often brings this up in his posts, though I have
yet to grasp just how this works -- in any logically consistent manner -- as
an extension of the MOQ.
 
Just a thought,
 
Dan
 
Hi Dan and all,
 
I was trained in Thomistic scholasticism which requires ³abstractions² for
words.  With a new viewpoint of ³experience² for words for which I credit
Persig, I probably sound confusing.  I am confused!  You certainly have
pinpointed what I am trying to express about ³multifaceted experience² in a
meta-lingistic aspect of symbolic imagery.  From the fourth level which I
conceive of as proprietary awareness (consciousness) of an individual, the
fifth level, the intellectual level, a relation of two, and beyond, a
description of evolution using DQ imagery should be precise.  There is no
common language for that precision.  So as not to be all over the place I
propose a law for an order of existence, using the model of the musical
Octave which has two aspects, different levels (order), and different values
between the levels (shock).  I am not original! I have borrowed this
template from writers of esoteric literature like Maurice Nicoll.  I don¹t
mean to be obscure, but the description of what an awareness of DQ adds to
experience leaves me flabbergasted.  I call experience ³conscious²
proprietary, or ³mechanical², common.  IMO SOL is only ³conscious², a term
from an evolution in consciousness.
 
Joe 



On 4/6/08 9:26 PM, "Dan Glover" <daneglover at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
>> 
>> Krimel said:
>> I'm not so sure that words _are_ ideas or that they determine ideas in the
>> way you suggest. Rather I would hope that ideas determine what words we use
>> and that the words we use modulate the tone or shade the meaning of the ideas
>> we express.
>> 
>> Matt:
>> Ah! Finally, a strictly philosophical topic. What is an idea if not words? I
>> think the idea that ideas are pre-linguistic is a remnant of SOM. But I'm not
>> sure I have the ingenuity to go from here in a convincing manner.
> 
> Dan:
> An idea is a symbol or a concept that isn't necessary to put into words. An
> image, a sound, or even an odor could be an idea, or at least the germ of an
> idea. In the latter sense, ideas are pre-linguistic or perhaps under certain
> circumstances meta-linguistic might be a better way to put it. Some images go
> beyond words. Remember when (The Artist Formerly Known As) Prince took an
> unpronouncable symbol as his legal name?
> 
> Fcusing on the meta-linguistic aspect of symbolic imagery might allow us to
> view art, mathematics, and even quantum theory as second cousins... kissing
> cousins, even. I think Joe often brings this up in his posts, though I have
> yet to grasp just how this works -- in any logically consistent manner -- as
> an extension of the MOQ.
> 
> Just a thought,
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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