[MD] WHY MoQ IS PARALYzED

[Ron Kulp]

[Krimel]
Yeah, I thought Ron was too willing to bail out early on this one. But
oddly enough I tend to side with Ham on this. How could anyone possibly
give you an example of a thought not dictated by grammar or words? How
would the thought be conveyed?

Ron:

:-0 
            :-) 
                     :-( 
                                   ( o ) 

;-)



-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Krimel
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:33 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] WHY MoQ IS PARALYzED

[Ham]
In any case, I find Ron's assertion that "our intellectual thoughts 
are dictated by grammar" to be an extreme position that defies common 
sense and is unsupported by empirical evidence.

[Ron]
Well Ham you are not alone. But I thank you for your honest response.
I think humans are able to think and have thoughts but humans who Use
language think in different ways, I think when we intellectualize We are
haggling over how terms are understood. We build conceptions Upon these
understandings.

Empirically I haven't a leg to stand on this issue because anything I
say
from here is meaningless. I realize this.

[Arlo]
Give me an example of an intellectual thought that is not dictated by 
grammar? Hell, give me an "intellectual thought" that does not use
"words"!

I'd say the reverse is true, what "defies common sense" is the idea 
that our "intellectual thoughts" are not constrained by the language 
in which we think! Of course, we also realize that this is not a bad 
thing, since "language" bestows upon us the ability to have 
"intellectual thoughts" at all!

[Krimel]
Yeah, I thought Ron was too willing to bail out early on this one. But
oddly
enough I tend to side with Ham on this. How could anyone possibly give
you
an example of a thought not dictated by grammar or words? How would the
thought be conveyed? The best example I can think of is in the split
brained
patient attempting to put together a puzzle. It is easily done with one
hand
but when the other hand tries, it fumbles around and the first hand
keeps
trying to reach in and help.

Language facilitates thought. It makes certain kinds of thought possible
that might not be otherwise. But it seems to me that language reveals
the
structure of thought more than it dictates the structure of thought. Or
a
least this is a two way interaction.

Also if you restrict thought to intellectual thought what does that
mean?
Aren't you in effect saying that intellectual thought is verbal thought
so
thought must be verbal?

Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/