[MD] Gun smoke in the shape of a fake letter and not a mushroom cloud

[Ian Glendinning]

DMB, I appreciate that my pointing out the ambiguities is a source of
frustration - an I have no problem with the tag "muddy waters" if you
wish, but I am not "creating" the ambiguities ... so please don't
"accuse" me.

So to the meat ...

(1) I took no objection to your suggestion that the guilty - the bad
apples - should be punished made examples of - public ritual ... that
is a large part of what the legal process is for. On the contrary, I'm
all for it.

(2) Let's talk about the relationship between this one man and the
these millions of other people (of both parties / any / no party) some
not yet born, in whom you and I both have these hopes (BTW we can come
back to this teleological mythology sometime.). My issue is with the
practicalities - beyond hopeful optimism ... Given the status-quo, how
do arguments like the one in Obama's quote get recognized in actual
practical thought and action going forward ... if he's elected do you
thing people suddenly will stop mocking "inconvenient truths" as if by
magic or rapid evolution.

... I'm, trying to build on what you said - asking the next question.
I have absolutely no disagreement with what you said.

Regards
Ian

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:19 AM, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ian said:
> ...My fear is that if we wrongly identify the problem (and the solution as hope in one individual to save the world ... not without its own risks) any progress is fragile and temporary.
>
> dmb says:
> As usual, you've created ambiguity where none is needed. Its pretty obvious who "they" are. Their names are in the papers, in book titles and on subpoenas. You should change your name to muddy waters. (We'll say your drivel is the water and your confusions are the dirt. Together, they add up to muddy waters.) How could you possibly construe what I said as "hope in one individual to save the world", for example? I'd said, "there needs to be a large public ritual, a concrete demonstration of disapproval for the sake of posterity" and "if this party retains control of the government, I think democracy will die here" and "I want to believe that most Americans are just as horrified as I am, that everybody sees how awful the GOP has become". Obviously, I'm talking about my hope in tens of millions of individuals, some of whom haven't been born yet. And I emphasized the parties, in fact, because the all agencies of government have been stacked with "these people". That means replaci
>  ng many thousands of individuals, if not millions, to actually operate the government in a democratic fashion.
>
> My fear is that you'll keeping posting nonsense and other pointless distractions.
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get more from your digital life.  Find out how.
> http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home2_082008
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>