[MD] Gun smoke in the shape of a fake letter and not a mushroom cloud

[Ian Glendinning]

Hi Arlo, you knew I wasn't getting at you, just answering the open
question that you had asked.

This word "elitist" is something we need to work on ... fundamentally,
are some people in a better position to make good decisions that
affect other people (or not) ? As you say, whilst this is the subject
of "talk-radio" style rhetoric and mockery, the chances of intelligent
debate are pretty slim. But we'll get there.

Ian

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 7:14 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
> [Ian]
> I do not trust numbers (per se) I trust numbers (ie numbers, words, logic,
> rhetoric too) provided by a "system" I trust.
>
> [Arlo]
> Right. This is why I said "I trust the numbers because..." (1) they are derived
> from multiple inputs (and in this case predating Obama's remarks), (2) I find
> no contradictory studies, (3) the numbers are confirmed by my experience and
> (3) I can find no reasonable reason to "distrust" the numbers. I've been
> waiting (as I always do) for Platt to provide ANY of these in rebuttal, but so
> far its just the same moronic, pridefully ignorant talk-radio rhetoric.
>
> Consider the reverse. The oil companies tell us that we will save x (maybe
> eventually) if we open up unfettered drilling on our protected lands (lands you
> and I own, by the way). I find more credible doubt to trust the oil companies
> since they have a vested profit motive to "fudge" the numbers. And I can find
> contradictory studies published that dispute the idea that "more drilling will
> lower cost". So there is some dispute that must be addressed reasonably.
> Finally, my personal experience has seen land devastated by industry, and so
> before I sign off on a potential for even more of our wild, public, beautiful
> lands to be ruined, I support all efforts at conservation first, and drilling
> on in the dire end.
>
> Consider too that Platt's only remark was to "distrust the government" (he's
> been unresponsive to my remarks that the figures come from, and are supported
> by, the auto industry), a criticism I find on the whole fair (when did I say
> "the government said it so I will blindly accept it in the face of contrary
> evidence"), but why then should I so uncritically accept what the government
> tells me about the war? Do you think Platt is advocating not trusting the
> government when it tells us the surge is working? (He's been silent on that as
> well)
>
> So yes, "trust the numbers because..." and articulate a reasonable proposition
> why (which I have done, agreement with experience, lack of contrary evidence,
> no reasonable motive for deceit that I can think of... I mean, if you told me
> air-gauge industry paid for the study, maybe I'd have some cause for alarm). I
> am open to reasonable disagreement, give me studies, logic, evidence, personal
> experience, anything that would make me call this into question. Simply
> squalking the moronic talking-points of talk-radio (elitism! arugula!) and
> saying something is ridiculous over and over (the Mighty Wurlitzer) may make
> the pridefully ignorant happy, but it hardly passes for any substantive
> dialogue.
>
> By the way, did you know you can also improve your mileage 4-5% by putting in
> new plugs (with platinum tips)? Several years back, the auto-industry also
> published reports stating that most cars on the road would benefit from new
> plugs. But I guess that's the arugula-eating elitist in me who points that out.
>
>
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