[MD] What is SOM?

[Joseph Maurer]

Hi Ham,

When I combine the undefined elements:

I am my conscious awareness, the subjective Knower from my consciousness and
I remain that which "knows". This is so simple, basic, and self-evident that
subjectivity.

The defined elements:
 
Of my reality take away all intellectual, conceptual, and relational
elements with the single exception of those weird Pirsigians who insist is a
myth
 

Joe



On 8/9/08 2:20 PM, "Ham Priday" <hampday1 at verizon.net> wrote:

> 
> Greetings, Joe --
> 
> 
>> I want to apply a metaphysics of undefined, defined
>> to your statement:
>> 
>> I am my conscious awareness, the subjective Knower (undefined)
>> of my reality (defined). Take away all intellectual, conceptual, and
>> relational elements (defined) from my consciousness, (undefined)
>> and I remain that which "knows" (undefined). This is so simple,
>> basic, and self-evident (undefined) with the single exception of
>> those weird Pirsigians who insist (defined) that subjectivity
>> (undefined) is a myth (defined).
> 
> And what do we gain by this defined/undefined rationale?  Perhaps it
> demonstrates that the components of awareness reduce to a duality (SOM).
> 
> Under what you cite as 'undefined' are the Knower (a subject by definition),
> Consciousness, Knowing, and Subjectivity (selfness).  These are of course
> the non-existent "mental" elements or processes, as opposed to Reality which
> is defined by objective experience.  I'm not so sure Insistence and Myth
> fall into the 'defined' category, however.  The former is an expression of
> intent or will on the part of a subject, while Myth is defined only in the
> sense that it identifies the subject's invalidated belief system.
> 
> A comment of yours to Marsha on 8/6 may shed some light on on your motive
> here:
> 
> [Joe]:
>> Your emphasis on the term "emptiness" echoes how I view
>> the undefined consciousness/self-awareness of the Social level.
>> In a seven level template for evolution "emptiness of emptiness"
>> also echoes the evolution of Subject only, the 6th higher
>> emotional level.
> 
> In a previous post you also said:
>> The relationship between what is undefined S and what is
>> defined O becomes intellectual, SOL.
> 
> I can't make any sense of the levels inferences, but you do refer to "the
> undefined consciousness/self-awareness of the Social level".  I don't know
> that it's possible to define self-awareness as a Social phenomenon, but
> would argue that it most certainly defines the individual.  What you seem to
> be saying is that since the subjective self can be defined only in terms of
> its "relational elements" (patterns?), conscious awareness is a non-entity
> (unless the intellect can define it).  In other words, there IS NO SUBJECT,
> as Pirsig maintains.
> 
> Joe, I hope I have this wrong, and that you are not echoing the nihilistic
> position that what is objectively indefinable (i.e., Self, Value, Essence,
> etc.) cannot be.  Please tell me you had some other purpose or strategy in
> mind.
> 
> Thanks, Joseph.
> 
> --Ham
> 
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