[MD] Direct Experience

[Ian Glendinning]

I did say that Platt, but it was just an opening point, I wasn't
avoiding a definition, just pointing out that the subject of your
question was about understanding those very words ...

Gav's point about meaning self-consciousness (the conscious-self being
it's conscious self) on the one one hand and Dave's Deweyan point
about "suffering" (the conscious self being subject to) incoming
experiences on the other ... is as close as I could get to definitions
... certainly the manner in which I would understand the distinction
between consciousness from experience.

Ian

On 8/17/08, Platt Holden <plattholden at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Dwaipayan,
>
> > On Aug 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, Platt Holden wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > A couple of questions for anyone who cares to answer:
> > >
> > > Do direct experience and consciousness mean the same thing?
> > >
> > > To put it another way, is consciousness necessary for direct
> > > experience?
> > >
> > > My answer to both is "Yes." Anybody agree?
> > >
> > > Platt
> > >
>
> [Dwaipayan]
>
> > The problem I've seen over and over again on this board is the
> > tendency to try and reduce everything to "intellectual" ruminations.
>
> Yes. Agree. But intellect can point to that which is beyond itself. That's
> its saving grace.
>
> > While this process is very necessary, it is not the end, but a means.
> > This (intellect) is meant to be used to navigate the sinuous path to
> > Moksha. It is a tool, a sensory organ like the other five.
>
> Yes. Agree. We also, as Pirsig says, have a sensory organ that responds to
> Quality.
>
> > If your topic is pertaining to the "Mystical" experience, then I must
> > state that the mundane/everyday consciousness is incapable of even
> > dealing with Direct Experience (there is no frame of reference and
> > attempts at interpretation will fail). If we expand our understanding
> > of Consciousness to that which simply knows, without having to
> > rationalize, then the answer is yes.
>
> Yes. Agree. As Ian pointed out at the beginning of this discussion, the
> answer is dependent on one's understanding of the terms "consciousness" and
> "experience."
>
> Perhaps the answer boils down to an expression heard frequently these days:
> "It is what it is."
>
> Thanks.
> Platt
>
>
>
>
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