[MD] Core problemS

[Heather Perella]

And if I do try to define events as "substances" (unknowingly), then I would like to clear this up for myself.

thanks.
SA

P.S.  We could hold off on this "substances" v. "experience" questioning until others chim in.  I'll wait. 


--- On Thu, 8/28/08, Heather Perella <spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Heather Perella <spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [MD] Core problemS
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 4:09 AM
> Ron,
> 
>      Are you suggesting that what I said deals with
> "substance" and not experience?  If so, maybe
> I'm either not communicating very well or maybe I do try
> to define events as "substances"?
> 
> SA
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 8/28/08, Ron Kulp <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Ron Kulp <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MD] Core problemS
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 3:07 AM
> > Ron,
> > 
> >     I find this to be contradictory and I know we (as
> in
> > this forum)
> > have had discussion on whether the levels are
> continuous
> > and overlap, or
> > are discrete and conflict.  But, maybe what I put
> forward
> > below might
> > help clarify these two seemingly contradictory
> passages by
> > Pirsig.
> >   
> >     My take on levels and what's between the
> levels:  I
> > find static
> > quality to emerge from dynamic quality, thus, it's
> not
> > linear for me,
> > it's more like rising mountains.  Here's my
> > analogy.  The valleys are
> > dynamic quality and the mountains rising out of
> dynamic
> > quality are
> > static quality.  Static quality rising out of dynamic
> > quality, but never
> > detaches from dynamic quality.  One could still find
> > dynamic quality in
> > the mountains with the blooming flowers emerging from
> the
> > mountains, so,
> > in this case, the mountains are dynamic quality and
> the
> > blooming
> > emerging flowers are static quality.  Simply put,
> static
> > quality emerges
> > out of dynamic quality but never detaches from dynamic
> > quality and
> > between static patterns one may find dynamic quality
> as the
> > transitional
> > state between static patterns where the static
> patterns are
> > not readily
> > defined.
> > 
> > 
> >      Anyways, to not detract from your original
> question
> > too far, I find
> > this to be very conflicting.  Pirsig says one thing
> and
> > then says the
> > complete opposite, unless...  When Pirsig says
> 'but not
> > all biological
> > patterns are social' this is the discrete part. 
> What
> > about the 'all
> > social patterns are biological', maybe the
> defining
> > here is not focused
> > on 'What are the social patterns', so,
> therefore
> > the definition is about
> > biological patterns only, but once one defines the
> social
> > patterns or
> > the social patterns emerge from the biological
> patterns a
> > clear
> > distinction can be made, thus, a clear discrete
> > categorization can be
> > developed.  To make a clear distinction between social
> and
> > biological
> > patterns, they need to be discrete patterns, patterns
> that
> > differ from
> > each other.
> > 
> > 
> > what do you think?
> > 
> > Ron:
> > I still believe seeing Quality as a substance is the
> wrong
> > way to go.
> > I think Quality as description of experience comes
> closer
> > to what
> > Pirsig is talking about. Experience is infinitely
> definable
> > thus
> > remains undefined.
> > 
> > I'd like to hear what others think before I chime
> in
> > any further.
> > 
> > Thanks SA
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