[MD] Dead Comedians Society ?

Ian Glendinning ian.glendinning at gmail.com
Tue Dec 2 03:51:37 PST 2008 

Hi Khoo ... I love that opening BTW ;-)
Wish I actually had a command of Haiku.

One of my several catchphrases is "Many a true word ..." (spoken in
jest) it may even be in my original "manifesto" ... must check.

There is always this danger of my "Master" riposte, being seen as
lacking in respect for the person and the concept when (clearly)
spoken in jest, but as you say humour is a fundamental component of
our reality. Irony as Rorty would say, The Fool / Court Jester as
Shakespear and the Greeks would say before him.

Several people on MD are fans of the likes of Bill Hicks and Kurt
Vonnegut and Douglas Adams (RIP all ... spooky ... Dead Comedians
Society R Us). That says a lot about intellect to me too.

Funny, I use the whole elephant and the blind men mepahor all the time
(in fact I'm infamous for over-using it in some business contexts) but
it is (like any good metahpor) strangely appropriate to some of the
stalemated debates on MD.

Yet again you provide me with quotable material, Oh Master ;-)
QUOTE
SOM may come to be the "universal human condition" but the world is a
fine mess as a result. Those who think that taking intellect to
extremes; be they the Islamists or the Wall Street financiers, will
somehow tame this world are mistaken.
UNQUOTE

Love it.
Regards
Ian

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Khoo Hock Aun <khoohockaun at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ian,
>
> I hope you had a good weekend plus monday now going on to tuesday. I must
> insist "master" I am not; even though proffered in jest.
>
> I do agree with your comment on the corniness of Robin William's portrayals
> or perhaps in Peter Weir's attempts in handling of certain parts of the
> movie. But I do want to highlight the aspect of comedy - and Robin has been
> a great comedian since Mork and Mindy and then his evolution into a great
> dramatic actor but we readily wait to be surprised by him and his
> intepretation of the world.
>
> Comedians who strike a chord and endear with us continually offer us their
> "poetic vision" a view of the world from their unconventional, no- rule is
> too sacred world. Humour is an intellectual exercise too - no ?
>
> We laugh because we have been offered an unexpected view of the world.
> Illogical maybe, Non-logical certainly. Anything that shakes the bottom out
> of conventional. We hear a lot of a culture's proclivity to humour - such as
> American versus the English and the Europeans. Believe me there is humour
> everywhere. Tenjewsberrymuch !
>
> But each joke and each comedic act strikes at the very heart of a society's
> convention.
>
> My late good friend, a former jesuit priest, spoke of structured minds and
> unstructured minds. Minds ossified by layers and layers of convention.
> Perhaps in MOQ terminology - static intellectual and social patterns in the
> minds that are so rigid, that they are not open to other possibilities.
>
> These minds have latched on to these patterns so ferociously that they may
> not be aware that these patterns and their selves have melded into being one
> and the same. Any threat to these patterns is a threat to themselves. After
> all the investment in time and words that have been made.
>
> SOM may come to be the "universal human condition" but the world is a fine
> mess as a result.
>
> Those who think that taking intellect to extremes; be they the Islamists or
> the Wall Street financiers, will somehow tame this world are mistaken.
>
> There shoud be an openness to Pirsig's work on this discussion list; an
> openness to all points of view; and that no one intepretation of his work is
> pressed forward as the only one. I am loathed to use the blind men and the
> elephant metaphor on the MOQ but the one that can fee  only one part  which
> is the leg that says" an elephant is not unlike a coconut tree" or another
> that  feels the ears says " an elephant is like a big banana tree leaf" or
> the last who pulls on the tail that says " if you pull on its cord, the
> heavens open up on you !!"
>
>
> Best
> Khoo Hock Aun
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 10:25 PM, Ian Glendinning <ian.glendinning at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>
>> Beautiful Khoo,
>>
>> I like Dead Poets too, it has some flaws as a film ... corny
>> predictable sentimentality in places ... but the underlying message is
>> a good one.
>>
>> "What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a
>> butterfly."
>> (What the SOMist calls a gap in his metaphysics, the MoQist calls a new
>> life.)
>>
>> I shall take the poetic version of that thought into the weekend,
>> along with all the other poetic allusions of amazonian butterflies,
>> metamorphosis and free flight "wider than the sky" that has triggered.
>> Thank you, master ;-)
>> Ian
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Khoo Hock Aun <khoohockaun at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Marsha
>> >
>> > I recollect one of my favourite moveis Dead Poets Society where John
>> Keating
>> > played by Robbin Williams have his students read the introduction to the
>> > book Understanding Poetry by a fictional Dr. J. Evans Pritchard, Ph. D.,
>> > which describes how to place the quality of a poem on a scale, and rate
>> it
>> > with a number.It would look like if we put all of Art on a scale, we
>> could
>> > reduce Quality to a number. Intellect as SOM would have it dehumanises
>> and
>> > reduces our experience to that of a cold hard rock.
>> >
>> > He later has the students stand on his desk as a reminder to look at the
>> > world in a different way, just as Henry David Thoreau intended when he
>> > wrote, "The universe is wider than our views of it"
>> > (*Walden<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden>
>>  > *).
>> >
>> > I think the Western concept of of SOM only based Intellect is too
>> limiting.
>> > it may seem all persuasive and pervasive now. But even in the Western
>> world,
>> > non-SOM intellect remains a potent force in recession even though with
>> ready
>> > adherents who seek its renewed expression. Some, a number on this list
>> are
>> > too ready to apply their fearsome intellect to the dissection of Quality
>> > into its metaphysics and manipulation on a scale of some absurd kind.
>> >
>> > As in the Dead Poets Society, the key to the non-SOM Intellect worldview
>> is
>> > poetic vision; the capacity and ability of artists, whatever their craft
>> and
>> > talent to see the world differently. The hunger for poetic vision, and
>> their
>> > forms of expression only testify to the great emptiness in a worldview
>> > imposed by what we know as Western Subject Object Metaphysics.
>> >
>> > 'The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and
>> > tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master
>> calls a
>> > butterfly." *Illusions - The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah" *by
>> Richard
>> > Bach - 1977
>> >
>> >
>> > Best
>> > Khoo Hock Aun
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:09 PM, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Khoo,
>> >>
>> >> What do you think?
>> >>
>> >> Marsha
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> At 04:38 AM 11/28/2008, you wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Greetings Khoo,
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, I think it is intellectual, and much, much more.
>> >>>  Everything-is-connected-to-everything would make it an ever-changing,
>> >>> collection of interrelated, interconnected, inorganic, biological,
>> social
>> >>> and intellectual, static patterns of value within a flow of dynamic
>> quality.
>> >>>  A piece of marble might be an inorganic spov, but a Michelangelo's
>> David?
>> >>>  Well that is so much more.
>> >>>
>> >>> Marsha
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> At 04:21 AM 11/28/2008, you wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Marsha Is Art: Painting, Poetry, Sculpture, Theatre, Music and all
>> these
>> >>>> non-SOM stuff intellectual activity ? Best Regards Khoo Hock Aun On
>> Fri, Nov
>> >>>> 28, 2008 at 5:15 PM, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote: > At 03:28
>> AM
>> >>>> 11/28/2008, you wrote: > > Give me some examples of patterns you deem
>> >>>> "intellectual" yet, isn't >> S/O-based. >> > > Bo, > > Didn't you ask
>> and
>> >>>> get replies to this question a few weeks ago? > > >  E=mc² > > --- >
>> >
>> >>>> STARDUST >    by Kay Ryan > > Stardust is > the hardest thing > to
>> hold out
>> >>>> for. > You must > make of yourself > a perfect plane-- > something
>> still >
>> >>>> upon which > something settles-- > something like > sugar grains on >
>> >>>> something like > metal, but with > none of the chill. > It's hard to
>> >>>> explain. > > > > >  Marsha > > > > > > > > > . > . > > Shoot for the
>> moon.
>> >>>>  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... > . > . >
>> >>>>  Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >
>> >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> >>>> > Archives: >
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>> >>>> > -- khoohockaun at gmail.com 6016-301 4079 Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
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>> >>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> .
>> >>> .
>> >>>
>> >>> Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the
>> >>> stars.........
>> >>> .
>> >>> .
>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
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>> >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> .
>> >> .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the
>> stars.........
>> >> .
>> >> .
>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>> >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > khoohockaun at gmail.com
>> > 6016-301 4079
>> > Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>
>
>
> --
>
> khoohockaun at gmail.com
> 6016-301 4079
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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