[MD] In and out of intellect.

[X Acto]

[Andre]
> This whole notion of 'truth' was undefined and I hope to think at that time
> at least on equal par with Good.
> I think that is why Pirsig compared it to the Tao. It was 'intellect' as
> Bodvar suggests that fucked it all up...later. And then it needed to be
> retrieved intellectualy, which is an impossibility...it is direct
> experience, from the pre-intellectual 'era'. That's why we must kill all
> intellectual patterns to get a glimps of it.

[Chris]
Even though I don't agree with Bodvar on the point of SOM being synonymous with the intellectual level, I do share his view that looking at SOM (and for that matter all philosophy and subsequent science that developed in the western world) as something that usurped and suppressed a Quality Understanding  - is wrong. We mustn't nurture some unrealistic view that before SOM people saw things undivided and pure - the Quest for Understanding is apparently present as far back as we have historical testimony, but what we CAN see (at least a MOQist) is that this quest was heavily - if not totally - dominated by social level values. Only when Truth can stand by itself, as a Value in it self - is the intellectual level realized.

Ron:
Excellent statement, while SOM did not suppress the quality idea, it did force Arete into the back seat redefining what social excellence
meant in the way of realizing truth as a value in itself so much so that over time it gradually dominated the scene and saw itself as divorced
from social norms and establishing a "gods eye" view that objectivism is known for. This does not so much suppress Arete but it overshadows
it so much that it is often ignored and under valued.