[MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.

[Ian Glendinning]

Ron, Arlo, hooray ... (and Bo)

This is what I was about, parodying the "god vs ooops" choice, and why
I'm trying to bring the SOM discrepancy debate with Bo round to the
subject of emergence from complexity, through self-referential,
level-crossing, so called "strange" loops of logic.

In fact, "I am a strange-loop", someone said.
Ian

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 7:19 PM, X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:
> Agree!  great post, and thank you for the correction, the term self referential is what I was after.
> I think an enlightened appoach to the concept of a "God" is viewing us as a
> complexity-emergent self-referentiality.
>
> thanks Arlo
> -Ron
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Arlo Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:58:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.
>
> [Ron]
> Due to the fact that biological life is present in the universe, one could argue that reality is indeed a self reflecting system.. What that means or what that entails I'm not sure I know. But it does seem to be an existing feature.
>
> [Arlo]
> Hey, I am all about self-referential systems (I prefer the term to "self-reflecting", as the latter seems passive). Self-referentiality seems to be a cornerstone of evolutionary progress (Hofstadter writes a great deal on this). Its the nature of that "self-referentiality" that's at issue. And I'd say there is a world of difference between a complexity-emergent self-referentiality and a needy Deity who needs "its magnificence" worshipped and so creates "man" to fill allay its vanity.
>
> I'd also argue that in the MOQ, it is not only at the appearance of "biological life" that the cosmos gains self-referentiality, but it certainly does advance it a great deal from the inorganic level. Indeed, I'd say that biological level is the result of (admittedly simple and humdrum) self-referentiality on the inorganic level. Thus there is (IMHO) not a difference in kind, but a difference in degree, with the fundamental processes by which ALL MOQ levels emerge from the previous level.
>
>
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