[MD] In and out of intellect.

[Andre Broersen]

Chris and Ron to Andre:
[Andre]
> This whole notion of 'truth' was undefined and I hope to think at that
time
> at least on equal par with Good.
> I think that is why Pirsig compared it to the Tao. It was 'intellect' as
> Bodvar suggests that fucked it all up...later. And then it needed to be
> retrieved intellectualy, which is an impossibility...it is direct
> experience, from the pre-intellectual 'era'. That's why we must kill all
> intellectual patterns to get a glimps of it.

[Chris]
Even though I don't agree with Bodvar on the point of SOM being synonymous
with the intellectual level, I do share his view that looking at SOM (and
for that matter all philosophy and subsequent science that developed in the
western world) as something that usurped and suppressed a Quality
Understanding? - is wrong. We mustn't nurture some unrealistic view that
before SOM people saw things undivided and pure - the Quest for
Understanding is apparently present as far back as we have historical
testimony, but what we CAN see (at least a MOQist) is that this quest was
heavily - if not totally - dominated by social level values. Only when Truth
can stand by itself, as a Value in it self - is the intellectual level
realized.
Ron:
Excellent statement, while SOM did not suppress the quality idea, it did
force Arete into the back seat redefining what social excellence
meant in the way of realizing truth as a value in itself so much so that
over time it gradually dominated the scene and saw itself as divorced
from social norms and establishing?a "gods eye" view that objectivism is
known for. This does not so much suppress Arete but it overshadows
it so much that it is often ignored and under valued.

Andre:

This makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you both for clarifying this.