[MD] A fine mess

[Ian Glendinning]

Useful piece of "educational" background Khoo. Very interesting.

(The power of the paper  - "SOMist Intellectual" - qualification was
also behind that recent mid-east story about the Iranian minister with
the fake Western degrees.)

No substitute for common sense, a personally evolved, enlightened
"street" wisdom.

"Never trust a man who doesn't work with his hands,
He looks at you once, you know he understands."
(Peter Gabriel)

Regards
Ian

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Khoo Hock Aun <khoohockaun at gmail.com> wrote:
> Andre & Ian,
>
> Correction, my earlier post should read:
> I used to think and I still subscribe to the idea that no institution on
> earth gives you an education.
> A good education is something you give yourself.
> To continue:
>
> From Wikipedia: "Beginning in the Han
> Dynasty<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Dynasty>(206 BCE to 220 CE),
> prior to the imperial examination system, most
> appointments in the imperial bureaucracy were based on recommendations from
> prominent aristocrats <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristocrat> and local
> officials, and it was commonly accepted that recommended individuals must be
> of aristocratic rank. Beginning in the Three Kingdom
> period<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_kingdoms>(with the nine-rank
> system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-rank_system> in the Kingdom
> of Wei<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Wei>),
> imperial officials were responsible for assessing the quality of the talents
> recommended by the local elites. This system continued until Emperor Yang of
> Sui <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Yang_of_Sui> established a new
> category of recommended candidates for the mandarinate (进士科) in 605
> CE<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/605>.
> For the first time, an examination system was explicitly instituted for a
> category of local talents. This is generally accepted as the beginning of
> the imperial examination system
> (科举).[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination#cite_note-0>
>
> Theoretically, any male adult in China <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China>,
> regardless of his wealth or social status, could become a high-ranking
> government official by passing the imperial examination, although under some
> dynasties members of the merchant class were excluded. In reality, since the
> process of studying for the examination tended to be time-consuming and
> costly (if tutors were hired), most of the candidates came from the
> numerically small but relatively wealthy land-owning gentry. However, there
> are vast numbers of examples in Chinese
> history<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_history>in which
> individuals moved from a low social status to political prominence
> through success in imperial examination. Under some dynasties the imperial
> examinations were abolished and official posts were simply sold, which
> increased corruption <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_corruption> and
> reduced morale."
>
> Khoo:
> What a wonderful idea; the notion of an examination where candidates may
> prepare for to advance according to their capacity and capability. But while
> the Chinese Imperial examination system may have been the model for the
> western churches of reason when it came their turn to provide a system of
> calibration for their graduates into society at large; the examination
> is now reduced to be the vast instrument of compliance for the Western based
> SOM intellectual community to impose its worldview on hapless populations.
>
> Without it and the paper qualifications they yield, you dont get a job, feed
> your familiy or have even a chance of advancement. Without it in Communist
> China, you do not get appointed to the plum positions in the bureaucracy and
> their various arms. If ever there is an avenue for an idea to be imposed
> upon the world in the most brutal effective sense its the examination
> system.
>
> Unless of course you are ready to make your way into the world in the much
> less regarded world of crafts and commerce, which require less of the
> intellect and more of the social skills and streetwisdom.  Bill Gates by
> this measure far overcompensated for his initial shortcoming.
>
> Before examinations held such sway, you learned your craft through
> apprenticeships and became good enough when your master said so or when you
> were simply good enough.
>
> It is this internal compass for Quality that is missing from the equation
> and I thought both ZAMM and Lila highlighted that absence in the education
> system today. Our bearings for Quality come outside the education system and
> we have to reach into our direct experience with the world and the universe
> in general to acheive a proper balance.
>
> Where the intellect and its systems fails us, we make up for it with
> commonsense.
>
> Rgds
> Khoo Hock Aun
>
> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Andre Broersen <andrebroersen at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Ian:
>>
>> It is ironic that it is called a "qualification" no ? When it is
>> really a "quantification". When objectives (values) become objects,
>> they are so much easier for accountants to count, and harder for the
>> rest of us to value. Education without quality.
>>
>> Andre:
>>
>> Hi Ian, yes, I agree with everything you say.Where education should be the
>> domain of exploration, a sort of experimental laboratory and also a type
>> Phaedrus describes in ZMM, it is one giant factory where students learn
>> what
>> they need to know which is determined by the marketplace. Ready made
>> subjects as part of a ready made curriculum spouting ready made knowledge
>> to
>> get ready made jobs.
>> And I believe it will only get worse as schools, colleges and universities,
>> certainly over the last 20 years have sought closer working relationships
>> with big and small business (both in terms of financial sponsoring and
>> provision of required knowledge [by business]).
>> Students are pre-packaged to suit a pre-determined job to keep on feeding
>> the Giant.
>> Yes, this whole notion of 'paper qualification', these ever increasing
>> meritocracies where 'ability' is defined and reflected in the number of
>> pieces of paper a person has.(and not real ability in many cases).
>> The 'familiarity' Phaedrus talked about, this 'experience once attained'
>> can
>> lead to creative/playful use of that which you know and of that which one
>> is
>> expected to do, but is seen as low value.
>> In Holland, when one has reached the age of 45 and up, and having lost
>> one's
>> job (after having been in one for 20 odd years) one has buckly's chance on
>> getting another one. One is simply considered too old. (that's one of the
>> reasons why I sit here in China as a voluntary development worker!).
>> Anyway, I can go on and on about this. Yes, Ian it is worrying and
>> depressing.
>>
>> But Cheers! Andre
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>
>
>
> --
>
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