[MD] A fine mess

[skutvik at online.no]

Andrè, Platt,  All. 

4 Dec. Andre referred to Platt's for me:

> > So on three counts, SOM intellect has not and can not regulate society
> > with anything other than detrimental effect. The survey of students
> > mentioned at the outset above reveals SOM's destruction of essential
> > social constraints.But, that's just the tip of the iceberg. A much more
> > significant outcome of SOM's damage to the general welfare in the name
> > of the "public good" is the current economic crisis.
 
> > Since SOM intellect is so damaging as I've outlined above and by going
> > "too far" as you say, I cannot help but wonder why Pirsig didn't come
> > out more strongly for less intellectual (government) control of society
> > except to protect individual rights and promote free markets. But,
> > nobody's perfect. :-) 

... and went on:
 
> Hope you do not mind me jumping in here but you 'tickled' my social
> worker side. The survey you talk about is a result of SOM 'intellect',
> SOM reasoning. 'The cause of our current social crisis, he (Phaedreus)
> would have said, is a genetic defect within the nature of reason
> itself' (ZMMp 110).

You comments are most welcome Andrè. The SOM-MOQ 
transformation is one way seen ridiculously simple and yet agonizing 
complicated. Before SOM became the 4th static level  it was simply 
REASON still it acted the level role of "taming" social value, but without 
the moderating effect of being a Q-level. 

In ZAMM Pirsig looked on SOM without the level tool. It was just SOM 
vs Aretê something that necessarily must become intellect vs society 
in a MOQ retrospect. His evaluation of the situation is valid, but not 
complete, the "genetic defect" of reason or SOM is intellect's very ' 
purpose, namely  to tame it's parent level. Only that Pirsig was 
unaware of the level context at that stage.   
 
> 'Now it is not just depressingly dull, it's also phoney...stylized
> cars,,,motors...food...clothes...children. You have to be awfully
> stylish yourself not to get sick of it once it a while'(ZMM pp285/6).
 
> And I agree with Pirsig who then argues that this is so because 'no
> one has ever told them that there's such a thing as Quality...'.(And
> that they are a [static/dynamic] 'representation' of Quality.

Yes, Pirsig rightfully thought that (the knowledge of) Quality would 
"moderate" reason, but when returning with the MOQ and its levels the 
4th. is as static as the rest and can by no twist of logic be changed 
from within but like the rest have a "moderator" above itself - namely 
the Quality Metaphysics it is a sub-set of.

> In this sense we have to be careful to not only blame the victim Platt
> (I hear what you say though) but it is not onesided. I do not think
> these kids are evil. I think they are reacting to something that is
> fundamentally missing in their lives and Pirsig sums it up pretty
> well.

This I leave to you and Platt ;-)

> If you are interested (and if appropriate for this forum) I can relate
> some ways the Chinese system deals with their children. (otherwise
> perhaps privately)

But this you must "publish".

Bodvar