[MD] [MD} The SOM/MOQ discrepancy

[Andre Broersen]

Ham to Andre:

I admire your perspicacity and loyalty to Pirsig.  But when you ignore the
differentiation of nature in process and the integrity of the individual,
then call the MoQ an "intellectualized" concept, it lacks credibility.  The
DQ/SQ cosmology has never made sense to me.  Things and events in process
are "dynamic", and  Quality, Value, and essential Reality are not "things'.
Only a sensible agent can realize Value, and neither subject nor object
could exist in the absence of a non-relational source.

Andre;

Perhaps Ham you have misunderstood me, or I haven''t made myself clear
(which probably is more likely). I do not ignore the"' differentiation of
nature in process and the integrity of the individual, and when I say: 'the
'static' continuously experienced sense of reality about which we can
intellectualise', I mean it in the sense of communicating it to eachother
and ourselves.(i.e. past pre- intellectual stage)

Ham:

Things and events in process are "dynamic", and  Quality, Value, and
essential Reality are not "things'.

Andre:
Completely agree

Ham:
Only a sensible agent can realize Value, and neither subject nor object
could exist in the absence of a non-relational source.

Andre:
This is where we differ Ham, the MoQ suggests that Value realises the
'agent' and it is after that point that subjects and objects are deduced to
'exist'.
Whilst I am on this, I suggested the MoQ was a sort of allegory, which you
found not really very philosophical/metaphysical.I agree but:
'The One can only be described allegorically...Socrates uses a
heaven-and-earth analogy...'.( ZMM p381). Pirsig uses the DQ/SQ analogy to
describe how static patterns of value are drawn toward the One. He has
presented us a metaphysics set in the form of a novel.Brilliant!!
And when you say that: The DQ/SQ cosmology has never made sense to me' ...
think of it this way: we, as static PoV's, responsive (or not) to DQ are
all in the process of writing our own novels and one of the most beautiful
examples of this is Marcel Proust's 'A La Cherch du Temps Perdu' (I do not
know if you have read it, Ham but I highly recommend it).

And please get me clear: I do not believe in hero worship nor do I want to
turn the MoQ into a Temple of (new) Reason.

Hope this has clarified things somewhat Ham.

Kind regards
Andre