[MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.

[MarshaV]

Greetings Platt,

At 07:15 PM 12/12/2008, you wrote:
>Hi Marsha,
>
>[Marsha]
> > > > What about Annotation 29 in LILA's Child?  Seems to me RMP is
> > stating
> > > > that the "sefl" does not exist independent of the patterns of all
> > four
> > > > levels.
> > > >
> > > > "29. The MOQ, as I understand it, denies any existence of a
> > > > "self" that is independent of inorganic, biological, social or
> > > > intellectual patterns. There is no "self" that contains these
> > > > patterns. These patterns contain the self. This denial agrees
> > > > with both religious mysticism and scientific knowledge. In
> > > > Zen, there is reference to "big self" and "small self." Small
> > > > self is the patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality."
> > > >      (LILA's Child)
>
>[Platt]
> > >Agree. Individuals consist of the four levels and the individual level,
> > >like other levels, is dependent on levels below it.
> > >
> > >Pirsig refers to the human individual many times in Lila, most notably
> > in
> > >his long story about the brujo and, of course, Lila herself.
> > >
> > >"Scientific knowledge" above probably refers to dedicated materialists
> > who
> > >believe the notion of "I" or self is a handy hallucination created by
> > >neurons firing in the brain. "Religious mysticism" probably refers to
> > seers
> > >who believe the "small self" is a chip off the big block of Buddha, or
> > in
> > >the Christian religion, a child of God.
>
> >
> > Hi Platt,
> >
> > Maybe, but Buddha isn't an entity.
>
>What would you say Buddha is? A big self? A hallucination?


If I had to guess, I'd say the Buddha is a collection of knowledge.



>
> > >That the individual holds a high place in the Pirsig's philosophy is
> > >evidenced by his writing in ZAMM: "My personal feeling is this is how
> > >further improvement in the world will be done: by individuals making
> > >Quality decisions, and that's all."
> > >
> > >What do you think?
> >
> > Without defining precisely what the individual is or isn't, I think
> > 'Three cheers for Quality decisions!!!'
>
>Isn't someone like you, me or other human individual needed to make Quality
>decisions in response to Dynamic Quality?

An individual, a self, is an ever-changing, collection of 
interrelated and interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and 
intellectual, static patterns of value responding to Dynamic 
Quality.  I wouldn't use the word 'needed'.


Marsha



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Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
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