[MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy

[Andre Broersen]

Hi All,

I have been away for a few days and have not read all of the issues and
posts yet so, if what I will say is a repeat or a contradiction or deserves
an earbashing ...fine. I would like to get a clear idea for myself and would
like to reflect on some ideas presented previously. As always we need to
help eachother on this. We do not do this for ourselves we do this for the
MoQ.

Bodvar (in his SOL paper quoting Pirsig to strengthen the SOL position:

*'Knowledge has grown away from its historic purpose and has become an end
in itself, just as society has grown away from its original purpose.* (Lila
p 306).
'It is 'knowledge', and there is no other kind than objective knowledge, and
because objective requires subjective (like light requires
darkness)...*intellect
is the Value of the S/O distinction.*

Andre:

Pirsig made it very clear, after having committed himself to
'define' Reality to try to make sure what he (Pirsig himself) meant by the
terms he was going to employ) to describe this reality. He makes a very
important statement on p 119 in Lila: 'No subject and object but static and
Dynamic is the basic division of reality'.
DQ being the pre-intellectual cutting edge (undefinable) and SQ containing
the resolution/redefinition of subjects and ojects. So when Pirsig talks
about static intellectual patterns of value he means the merging/fusion/
containment of subject(ive) and object(ive) knowledge into one. Within MoQ
thinking there is no division.

So these processes of growing away from original, historical purposes, are
linked. That's what you get when you reject/separate one another (call it a
divorce). Because you had a close relationship and you do not like what the
other party finds, as you develop (separately) you begin to dislike one
another/ become jealous?) because of what you find...and what do you find?:
through realising your own potential (finally freed from 'the other)
imperfection and fault' in eachother( and , of course complements). This is
what Pirsig has sought to rectify and set right. This is the core of the
defect.(and you do not need a social worker to find this out).

In this sense, and staying with Pirsig, it can be suggested that, instead of
"...*intellect *[being] *the value of the S/O distinction"*, the step should
be taken towards Pirsig and the MoQ saying: *Intellect is the value of the
S/O resolution*. The distinction is only entrenched and recognised at the
social level because Soc. PoV's  have been shaped and dominated by SOM
thinking (which is dialectically interwoven with this level).
Given this though,  a contradiction can be observed: quality thinking has
always been a part of Soc. PoV's but have been allowed to express themselves
only in an 'underdog' way....because they were seen as 'only' subjective.
As Pirsig argues: 'Static morality is full of heroes and villains, loves and
hatreds, carrots and sticks. Its values don't change by themselves. Unless
they are altered by Dynamic Quality they say the same thing year after year.
Sometimes they say it more loudly, sometimes more softly, but the message is
always the same'(Lila p 119).

Our 'human' history (and this is hopefully agreed on: that Soc. PoV's
represent humanity) is full of expressions/ feelings of Good being also an
expression of non-conformity to established patterns of fixed values..'In
this sense the *brujo* here is Pirsig. And, whereas the *brujo *could not
say what ethical principles he was following Pirsig damned well did and
still does.

Let's follow the spirit of Pirsig.

I believe that SOM and MoQ can co-exist together...given MoQ's alterations
to SOM's interpretations of data. It may be that they can keep eachother 'in
check'. The intellectual level needs guidance and I am convinced the MoQ has
that 'mechanism' built within itself. But power corrupts and absolute power
corrupts absolutely. This is perhaps where the Code of Art comes in.
For SOM this means MoQ (GOOD) quality testing/ for the MoQ this means
scientifically(TRUTH) quality testing. Pure and simple.
This may assist the combining process of science/mysticism continuing their
evolutionary process: i.e.DQ/SQ.

Okay...start bashing.

For what it is worth
Andre