[MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.

[X Acto]

Platt,
I think what Mystics and materialists are infering is not that the self is a hallucenation
but an illusion, a distortion. The self as concieved of as an "entity" isolated and distinct
from the world is the illusion. It exists, to be sure and it's development and realization
is what we all are talking about. But what they and Pirsig contend, is that  the self
is composed of patterns of value from inorganic to organic ,to biological and intellectual.
The entity part being the one assumed by the popular systems of western social patterns.
This is the one they deem an "illusion" carring with it the problems of our society.

-Ron





________________________________
From: Platt Holden <plattholden at gmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 1:03:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.

> [Ham]
> > An existent is something that is empirically identifiable by its
> properties 
> > or attributes.  Consciousness cannot be quantified, localized or
> objectively 
> > experienced.  Its origin is explainable only by a transcendent reality,
> > whereas existents can be explained in terms of cause-and-effect. 
> Therefore, 
> > consciousness is not an existent..
> 
> My consciousness can localized in space & time.  When I am conscious
> of a sound it is always where I am.  Also I had no consciousness before
> I
> was conceived & don't expect any after I die. This all has a causal
> explanation.
> Therefore, I must conclude my consciousness exists after all.
> Craig

A nice exposition of the individual and the self, condemned by both 
materialists and mystics as hallucinations. I conclude both the individual 
and the self exist after all -- and I don't mean exist as figments of 
imagination -- as fundamental to consciousness. 

Platt
    

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