[MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.

[skutvik at online.no]

Arlo and all involved in this issue.

15 Dec.you wrote:

Bo before
> > The reason for Pirsig's saying that nothing but man responds to DQ is I
> > believe that he (correctly) regards the intellectual level astraditional
> > Q-evolution's last stage (leading edge) and that humankind's is it's
> > sole "inhabitant" here (not even all of those). 
 
Arlo:
> Then perhaps you would be so kind as to give me an example of
> something that responded to DQ before "man" appeared on the stage, and
> give me an example of something it could do in response to DQ that it
> can no longer do today? Let's say the Mesozoic Era. Something existed
> during that nearly 200 million year span that could respond to DQ,
> right? What?

Pirsig does away with "man" (p.158 in LILA Bantam Press) in the 
traditional (somish)  body/mind sense. 

    "There isn't any "man" independent of the patterns. Man is the 
    patterns".   

Thus it was some advanced BIOLOGICAL pattern which provided the 
stepping stone to the social level. That this pattern was connected with 
the human body is not relevant. After that it necessarily had to be a  
human SOCIAL pattern that provided the stepping stone to the 
intellectual level. And as necessarily will it be an INTELLECTUAL 
pattern on top of the human society which provides the stepping stone 
for DQ's flight out of intellect. 

Then to Arlo's question about " ... an example of something that 
responded to DQ before "man" appeared on the stage..." (cut)

As said a man-borne biological pattern "reacted to DQ" and became 
its stepping stone to the social level. 

(paste) ".....and give me an example of something it could do in 
response to DQ that it can no longer do today? Let's say the Mesozoic 
Era.  Something existed during that nearly 200 million year span that 
could respond to DQ, right? What?"

There was nothing biological dynamic enough to provide a "stepping 
stone" to the social level. It was another 60 million years before Homo 
Sapiens arrived. 

Pirsig unfortunately only one "stepping stone", namely the carbon atom 
from "inorgany" to biology.  According to the current BB theory, it was 
all hydrogen at first and then helium, only when stars started to form 
and crunched out more heavy complex elements - and new stars 
formed out of these - to form even heavier elements, carbon emerged. 
After some billion years probably, so regarding your question: 
Something existed for billions of years before a dynamic enough 
inorganic pattern emerged and reacted to DQ,  before that it was all 
static inorganic "reactions"       

IMO

Bo