[MD] : Re: The SOM/MOQ discrepancy.

[Andre Broersen]

Platt to Ron:

[Ron]
> I think what Mystics and materialists are infering is not that the self is
> a hallucenation
> but an illusion, a distortion. The self as concieved of as an "entity"
> isolated and distinct
> from the world is the illusion.
PLatt:
In that respect, all nouns are illusions, fingers pointing at moons. But
there is a part of self that exists apart from everything else -- one's
sense of self, often referred to as self-consciousness. As evidence I like
to point out, "You'll never know what it's like to be kissed by you."
The basic paradox we live with every moment is that we never separate but
always apart. Live and world lives with you; die and you die alone.

Andre:

the Dharmakaya light...Platt you are opening up a big possible perception.
Which is following on from what I have 'snipped' out of the exchange between
you and Ron.
I think that we, as human beings have lost the natural response/ability to
this perception.
Can it go back as far as the mythical Adam and Eve story with regards to
eating from the tree of knowledge...at which time true/ direct percepton
took place  and from there on ( after having eaten) separated us from direct
perception?
I also believe that all the patterns 'below' the social PoV's have or rather
live in harmony with this dynamically given situation. For all that has gone
before, the Dharmakaya light is a given. It is at the social/intelectual
level that we are starting to make things difficult for ourselves (because
of the SOM/ S/O distinction). It has never been like  this but some how our
ability to comprehend was too small to comprehend because of language
?...i.e. the way we tried to capture it and make it understood by our fellow
human beings?

Thus despite and because of our immensely greater ability to understand/ be
aware of and thereby mold our perception and interpretation of the world we
live in, we have a huge handicap: we have lost our ability to directly
grasp/know/understand/comprehend what this world, and ourselves is/are
really like.
It is the price we pay for wanting to know.

In this sense intellect is an impediment to our 'understanding'of 'reality'.

Intellect should serve social PoV's! It should ensure a safe
environment(clean sea, air and land), a safe place to live in ( in our
streets, schools, homes) ensure safety from our enemies, protect us from
biologicall enemies;food, greed, hunger.

Why? because DQ is a pre-intellectual event!(literally!!!) If we are going
to cut off all possibilities of maintaining the possibility of making this
pre-intellectual event  possible (i.e. by killing/ destroying, through SOM
reasoning, all inorganinc/ organic levels) we are doomed.
And I think this is a real threat to all of evolution and human progress.

Platt:

When pressed I think most people would agree that you as an individual self
have a body (inorganic, biological) and a mind (social, intellectual). Some
like me argue that you also have a soul -- that which responds to DQ and to
beauty -- what I call a light or spirit within.

Andre:
I feel you are right Platt. I think it may be part of the little snippet of
DQ which has 'realised' us and which is part in all of us and is a part of
all of us. It is that part that gives us feed-back ...after we had a
'quality' moment and says; 'I knew this al along'. It is like going back to
your roots, your real parents.
Have you had this experience before?

Just a thought,
Andre