[MD] Consciousness

[Platt Holden]

> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Platt Holden [mailto:plattholden at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:02 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Consciousness
> 
> > > Platt
> > > "A tribe can change its values only person by person and someone has
> to
> > be
> > > first." (Lila, 9)
> > > 
> > > [Krimel]
> > > And someone has to go second. If only the first guy changes, the
> tribe
> > > never
> > > does.
> > 
> > [Platt]
> > Right, individual by individual, person by person, one by one. 
> > 
> > [Krimel]
> > The point is that humans do not now and have never existed as
> > "individuals".
> > Individual thoughts and actions always and only take place in a social
> > context. No single individual creates or has created anything out over
> > whole
> > cloth. We always act, invent, discover and create within a social
> > context
> > that provides not just the raw material of our doing but gives it
> > meaning
> > and significance.
> 
> [Platt]
> Yes, laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone. In other
> words, each of us is eternally separate but never apart. But when it comes
> to an evolutionary advance, a step towards betterness, an individual
> alwasy 
> leads the way, whether a carbon atom, a fishing chimpanzee or an Albert 
> Einstein. The rest follow.    
> 
> [Krimel]
> No, we always live and breathe in the context of others. We are the
> product
> of our culture and culture provides the context and the raw material for
> every advancement made by every individual. The advance of any individual
> is
> not an advance at all unless it is appreciated and adopted by others. An
> advancement only has meaning in the context of culture. 
> 
> As for the idea that there was a first carbon atom, who lead the way for
> other carbon atoms to follow... Come on Platt, that is almost the
> dumbest
> thing you have ever written here.

Your collectivist view is about as dumb as it gets.