[MD] Dynamic within static.

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Ron

19 Dec. you commented my thoughts about the dynamic/static 
relationship in the MOQ.  

Ron: 
> Interesting points Bo and I agree with your outlook. If any idea
> accurately describes evolution in MoQ terms it is the increasing
> complexity of Dynamic Quality. 

>From the grand  view that everything is Quality the levels means an  
increasing complexity of the overall DQ/SQ aggregate , but my 
concern is the complexity increase within each level, if this is DQ at 
work?           

> It's almost as if it operates in the opposite direction of what Pirsig  
posits, that DQ strives against it's nature toward static quality..     

Provided that you by "it" mean the overall (inter-level) evolution (the 
one Pirsig describes as DQ trying to overcome its latest latch) your 
observation that DQ seemingly strives against itself may be explained 
by the above relationship. The level's own (intra-level) evolution 
however ....??      

> Making a possible definition of another static level the permanence of
> ideas, the universal common understanding. That which is fixed in a
> realm of dynamic flux. 

I'm not sure what you are saying here. 

> Heraclitus made some very astounding statements about this topic. He >
> was known for being obscure. Obviously Parmenides was influenced by him
>  and expanded upon his statements. He noted that we see permanence in
> change and stated that the only permanace was change itself. What we
> know as "a river" (singular) universal. Is a plurality of constantly in
> flux. causes one to make the conjecture: Thus the  abstract fortress of
> SOM was built, this kingdom of heaven, perfect of  form. Created by the
> logos and which may only be reached through  reason.  

Heraclitus may be interesting, and I'm glad that you agree in his being 
part of the what ZAMM describes as the emergence of SOM - Greek 
thinkers' search for eternal principles, and if this also was (as I 
suggest) the intellectual level's emergence, then the question is: Was 
intellect's long and winding road toward the modern "mind/matter" 
version a dynamic evolution? 

IMO it must be static because it was took place within a static level - 
else I don't know the purpose of "stability" at all. It evolved along the 
static rules laid down by the Greeks. These weren't "subject/object" at 
once (this dichotomy is far younger) but we see the shape of things 
come with the first PERISHABLE/ETERNAL dichotomy. The 
perishable part was called Apparent and the eternal Truth by Socrates. 
With Plato the said dichotomy had become Appearance/Ideas, with 
Aristotle it had become Form/Substance and here ZAMM says that the 
outline of science is visible. 

Only with Pirsig did DQ find an unstable enough intellect to "ride" to it's 
completion with the MOQ   

IMO

Bo     

















> > And here MOQ's "carbon as DQ's vehicle to biology" have great clout, but
> > Pirsig goes on as if each biological "improvement" was a dynamic victory
> > over stability, but  now that Q-evolution had moved to biology any
> > victory  must have been victory over BIOLOGICAL stability, and that
> > doesn't sound right. Once the biological ground-rules were established
> > these evolved more complex organisms until one was complex enough to
> > serve for a vehicle to the social level. At least this is how things
> > look to me at the present time, if anyone has a different view I would
> > like to hear it.  
> > The Brujo story is about how the "static" Zuñi society was altered -
> > dynamically according to Pirsig - my tentative objection is if every
> > increment within the social level is due to a dynamic intervention, how
> > did the Q-evolution ever escape the social level  .... or ever escape
> > the  inorganic level for that matter? Life would merely be ever more
> > dynamic inorganic patterns. No? 

> 
> An interesting interpretation.
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