[MD] example of reciprocal altruism?

[MarshaV]

At 04:47 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
>Hi Marsha,
>
>You don't have to convince me about science believing one thing and then
>another. It wasn't so long ago when eugenics was all the rage in scientific
>circles. Now it's the global warming scam.

Hi Platt,

I do not take global warming to be an object that is subject to a 
true or false existence.  Global warming is an overlapping, 
interrelated, interconnection, ever-changing static pattern of value.

Marsha




>Humans have a marvelous capacity for being duped. Makes no difference if
>the source is a scientist, philosopher, politician, priest or a
>millionaire member of a Palm Beach country club.
>
>Platt
>
>
> > Hi Platt,
> >
> > If you listened to that 2-part program on Neanderthals, you'd note
> > that science once believed one thing and now believes something quite
> > different.  It's all so much myth.  It's reality until patterns
> > change.  I do not have a problem seeing all human knowledge as a
> > temporary understanding.
> >
> >
> > Marsha
>
> > At 02:33 PM 12/27/2008, you wrote:
> > >Hi KO, Craig, Marsha, All:
> > >
> > >A couple of monkeys behaving with reciprocity in a zoo is hardly
> > evidence
> > >of our inheriting a spirit of cooperation from our animal ancestors. In
> > >fact, our closest monkey relatives, the chimpanzees, "formed hunting
> > >posses" in the wild and "tore baby baboons they captured limb from limb
> > and
> > >seemed to enjoy it." -- Lionel Tiger, professor of anthropology,
> > Rutgers
> > >University, WSJournal, 12/27/08 .
> > >
> > >Pirsig also presented less than a heartwarming picture of our
> > evolutionary
> > >inheritance:
> > >
> > >"What the Metaphysics of Quality indicates is that the
> > twentieth-century
> > >intellectual faith in man's basic goodness as spontaneous and natural
> > is
> > >disastrously naive. The ideal of a harmonious society in which everyone
> > >without coercion cooperates happily with everyone else for the mutual
> > good
> > >of all is a devastating fiction.
> > >
> > >"Studies of bones left by the cavemen indicate that cannibalism, not
> > >cooperation, was a pre-society norm. Primitive tribes such as the
> > American
> > >Indians have no record of sweetness and cooperation with other tribes.
> > They
> > >ambushed them, tortured them, dashed their children's brains out on
> > rocks.
> > >If man is basically good, then maybe it is man's basic goodness which
> > >invented social institutions to repress this land of biological savagery
> > in
> > >the first place. (Lila, 24)
> > >
> > >This reminded me of the phrase "thin veneer of civilization." When I
> > >entered it in Google the following passage quickly came to the fore:
> > >
> > >"Civilization (which is part of the circle of his imaginings) has spread
> > a
> > >veneer over the surface of the softshelled animal known as man. It is a
> > >very thin veneer; but so wonderfully is man constituted that he squirms
> > on
> > >his bit of achievement and believes he is garbed in armor-plate.
> > >
> > >"Yet man to-day is the same man that drank from his enemy's skull in
> > the
> > >dark German forests, that sacked cities, and stole his women from
> > >neighboring clans like any howling aborigine. The flesh-and-blood body
> > of
> > >man has not changed in the last several thousand years. Nor has his
> > mind
> > >changed. There is no faculty of the mind of man to-day that did not
> > exist
> > >in the minds of the men of long ago
> > >
> > >"It is the same old animal man, smeared over, it is true, with a
> > veneer,
> > >thin and magical, that makes him dream drunken dreams of
> > self-exaltation
> > >and to sneer at the flesh and the blood of him beneath the smear. The
> > raw
> > >animal crouching within him is like the earthquake monster pent in the
> > >crust of the earth. As he persuades himself against the latter till it
> > >arouses and shakes down a city, so does he persuade himself against the
> > >former until it shakes him out of his dreaming and he stands undisguised,
> > a
> > >brute like any other brute."
> > >
> > >http://www.erblist.com/erbmania/nkima/veneer.html
> > >
> > >All of which has led me to reiterate Pirsig's stern advice to today's
> > >intellectuals:
> > >
> > >"Where biological values are undermining social values intellectuals
> > must
> > >identify social behavior, not matter its ethnic connection, and support
> > it
> > >all the way without restraint. Intellectuals must find biological
> > behavior,
> > >no matter what its ethnic connection, and limit or destroy destructive
> > >biological patterns with complete moral ruthlessness., the way a doctor
> > >destroys germs, before those biological patterns destroy civilization
> > >itself." (Lila, 24)
> > >
> > >Our civilization is under attack. Will our "intellectual" leaders heed
> > >Pirsig's advice? I have my doubts. We shall see.
> > >
> > >Platt
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes, you are right Craig but people behave altruistically often
> > without
> > > > thought of reciprocity - they do this by virtue of inheritance. The
> > > > reciprocity is the quality that was selected.
> > > >
> > > > -KO
> > > >
> > > > 2008/12/27 <craigerb at comcast.net>
> > > >
> > > > > [KO]
> > > > >
> > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7797776.stm
> > > > > Good news for those of us who see mutual cooperationas
> > > > > evolutionary.However, the term 'reciprocal altruism' is oxymoronic
> > > > > inEnglish.  'Altruism' is doing something for another's
> > sakewithout
> > > > expected
> > > > > benefit to one's self.  A betterdescription is the one from the
> > > > article
> > > > > above, viz.,"calculated reciprocity".Craig
>
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Credo of Albert Einstein:  Although I am a typical loner in daily 
life, my consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of 
those who strive for truth, beauty and justice has preserved me from 
feeling isolated.
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