[MD] Coming up for air.

[skutvik at online.no]

Magnus

14 February you wrote:

> It's getting hard to keep up with the flow here. Perhaps I'm already
> behind.

Yes, I feel the need for "coming up for air" in this Tsunami. To try 
to come to grips with our agree- and disagreements I open a new 
thread and a new approach.   

I had said: 
> > We have all solemnly forsworn the Mind/Matter metaphysics  
> > where mind(=thoughts) is one half of reality, how come you 
> > accuse me of making some levels into thought levels? After all there
> > is no such thing as thoughts in the MOQ (except as part of
> > intellect's thought/matter value, IMO)   

Magnus:
> Because your reasoning always start from some person or group of
> persons thinking this, and thinking that. 

I ask in a serious "mode". Do you mean that my claim that 
animals have the neural capacity to - you know - "store & 
manipulate experience" makes the biological level a thought 
level? And likewise that my claim that ancient (social level) 
people had theories about existence (what we call myths) makes 
the social level a theoretical level? And that the Greek's search 
for "eternal principles" (the beginning of the 4th. level IMO) 
continues the mental/theoretical/thought evolution?     

Magnus ctd:
> Sometimes they're in one mode and at other times they're in some other
> mode. 

The idea is that we are all levels - isn't it so - thus when our body 
hurts our "mode" turns biological. And when the society we 
identify with is in question our "mode" turns social etc. what's 
wrong with this?    

Magnus: 
> When you're reasoning about reality, it seems you never give a second
> thought about the physical world that existed before humans, and still
> exists. Also, your version of the MoQ have no room for artificial
> intelligence, so when such things pops up and starts thinking about
> thinking, your MoQ is useless.

Do I not consider the inorganic level? I don't have good examples 
of ourselves in inorganic "mode" except death, but I know well 
that it is existence's base and is infinitely older than life. Give me 
a break Magnus! And how do you know my opinion on Artificial 
Intelligence before we have discussed it? Speak about prejudice! 
And "your MOQ" (with tons of contempt) It's MOQ to the core, 
underpinned by most of Pirsig's work.       

Bo