[MD] Patterns

[Christoffer Ivarsson]

Hello Arlo

[Chris]
Individuality is mostly a thing created by the 4th. Level

[Arlo]
To be precises, I've already said I consider the "self-as-concept" to be an
intellectual pattern. My main concern here has been articulating the process 
by
which this intellectual pattern appears.


And this is why I find the whole "lone individual" stuff nonsense, and the 
idea
that "man" is some ridiculous solitary agent out their freely intellecting
until big bad society comes along and enslaves him. Are there particular 
social
patterns (as politics or nation-states or religions) that have, 
historically,
bound man? Sure. But it is social-participation from which intellect arises.
Rail against repressive social patterns that immorally suppress intellectual
patterns, but do not mistake the MOQ for a metaphysics that sees sociality 
as
repressive, far from it, it considers it to be the foundational from which
intellect emerges.

[Chris]
I agree that the intellectual level is based upon the social level, as do 
any MOQist worth his/her name, and so your statement that "it is 
social-participation from which intellect arises." I can agree on, but - 
only in the sense that it was the social level that provided that basis on 
which a thinking of subjects and objects could be developed.

Would you please back up this: "Pirsig makes it clear that this 
"self-as-concept" [.] originates out of the social level." ? Because I 
cannot fully agree on this view.

The separate self I hold is something that developed simultaneously as the 
SOM (4the level) grew in power, and it is the idea of the subject as 
separate from the objects surrounding him/her that is the real problem. 
Furthermore this has become institutionalized and has formed social patterns 
to fit itself, most notably in America, so, the American (and other places 
as well) communism-phobia is not something motivated by rationality, it is 
the social level acting, formed as it was by the rising 4th level to it's 
present overly-static condition.

Well, IMO

Regards

Chris