[MD] The End of Faith - Spirituality

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting Arlo Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu>:

> [Platt]
> If you want to go back to ancient history, be my guest. Most are more 
> interested in the last 100 years.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Yes, since religion was neutered by secular enlightenment. A wise 
> decision if you wish to pander to dogmatic religion.

The enlightenment Founding Fathers weren't "neutered" from their religion.

> But your claim was not about the last 100 years. It was about how 
> those who advocate "state supremacy" are "atheists". Historically, 
> this is far from true. Nor is your "implied" belief that "belief in 
> God" keeps man "free from state control", as is proven false by even 
> the most cursory of historical reads.

Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Castro et al were God-fearing leaders?
Yeah, right.  


> What you are doing, as I've said, is conflating post-secular 
> enlightenment with "belief in God". It has never been "religion" that 
> has given man "freedom" and "rights". It has never been "religion" 
> that has kept "man" valued as anything more than cattle. It has been 
> secular enlightenment that has carried that torch, indeed, that had 
> lit that torch in the first place.

See above about the Founding Fathers. 
 
> But its easy to see why apologists for western religion would try to 
> back-step and pretend their religion was all about "man's rights", 
> and how their freedom was "endowed by God", and try to disassociate 
> "atheism" with the very thing secular enlightenment brought us... 
> liberty and freedom.

See above about the Founding Fathers.




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