[MD] The End of Faith - Spirituality

[Christoffer Ivarsson]

> Right, regarding Hitler and right regarding the forces that
> supported him, mostly the "landed gentry" in many countries,
> Sweden and Norway too, who saw the collectivization as a great
> threat. And around this time (of collectivization) communism went
> bad, Christoffer says that nationalism took over, but the many
> republics merging into the Soviet Union wasn't exactly a nation
> like Pirsig speaking about the "German Volk" - yet. Perhaps the
> MOQ explains this in an even deeper sense, that of intellect can't
> operate as if disconnected from everything. It's "out of social
> value" and can't neglect it.
>
> Nuff said. ...except that I agree with Christoffer on China,
> Cambodia, North Korea and Cuba. I think our democracies,
> social, or not so social, are the best. For Platts benefit I think
> Europeans have a false impression of the USA as harsh on the
> poor, "do or die" and such, but there's a lot of welfare programs,
> bureaucracy too.
>
> Bo

Thank you Bo, good post, and some much needed stability before this 
discussion floats away totally =)
As for the failure of the soviet union to form a real communist state I can 
cite professor Kristian Gerner, our Russia expert. Actually Lenin and the 
early Bolsheviks had the idea that because they had the biggest chance of 
starting the revolution in Russia - the weak link in the capitalist chain 
they thought - they would do so, but it would not mean anything if Germany 
didn't join in behind the revolution - the first thought was to create a 
bridge head so to speak, but it was Germany that was central because of  its 
special industrialized nature (the leninists thought).  So, if we put this 
together with what you pointed out in Pirsigs analysis about it all, the 
reactionary social patterns won out in Germany. (And later the Russian 
communism was transformed by Stalin into classical Russian ruling patterns 
that according to leading  historian Dick Harrison is a direct heritage from 
East Rome. )


(Sorry to go on like this, but I just love history =)

Mh, yes, good and well.