[MD] Politics

[Christoffer Ivarsson]

> Bo:
> I haven't followed the "politics" thread too closely, but if Ron's 
> position
> is that Hitler represented Social Value and thereby was "moral", he
> (Ron) is right. What Chris has said about censorship I don't know, but
> if he means that democracy (as part of the intellectual level) will repel
> anti-democratic tendencies (for instance censor nazi-inspired
> utterings) Chris is right too.

Yes, I was not speaking for censorship as such, I merely wanted to make it 
clear that it isn't black and white.

> Chris correctly says that democracy defending democracy by limiting
> freedom (censorship)  is a paradox, but this is intellect limiting
> society's values (freedoms) and that is intellect's very purpose. I can
> however find real paradoxes, f.ex. people electing to give up
> democracy (as in Algeria in the nineties) and/or Turkey's military
> forces DEFENDING democracy. This is due to the Muslim world never
> having properly entered the intellectual level (please, nothing about
> intelligence!) thus importing intellectual patterns (democracy f.ex.)
> from the West they become a sham.



I agree

A small side track:

The Turkish Military is a thing that I have looked into a bit, and from a 
MOQ perspective it becomes quite understandable. The reason that the Turkish 
armed forces is the preservers of democracy in Turkey and immediately 
interviens any time a religious party or a undemocratic one comes to power, 
is because they are the defenders of Ataturk's legacy, so they see it, and 
they are taught this is their mission. Atatürk was of course himself a 
general, and so it is not so strange that it was the military that took this 
mission upon themselves. Now, to my point: When Ataturk proclaimed the 
Turkish Republic he, almost over night, transformed an ancient religiously 
dominated  empire into a secular democracy. This was the intellectual level 
literally forcing itself upon the social. However, even though the ideas 
that the Turkish military took upon themselves to protect were ( quite 
dynamic) intellectual patterns at that time, they soon transformed into 
static social patterns.  Here we can learn and see the utmost importance of 
the balance between DQ and SQ. Because even though the Turkish military 
still holds it as their mission to make sure the country isn't ruled by 
religious agenda and that the spirit of Ataturk is kept alive - it seems 
this is now blocking development as well.

(this is all quite generalised, and of course my interpretation of the 
situation - though properly investigated)


Regards

 Chris