[MD] The End of Faith - Spirituality

[Arlo Bensinger]

[Platt]
When you say "better," do you mean "more moral?" Pirsig does. I do.

[Arlo]
I dont think Pirsig does. As I quoted, he uses the terms "values" and 
"morals" more or less interchangeably. So to say something is "more 
moral" is a judgement that must come from the level above it, and is 
a determination based on how that pattern interacts with said higher level.

For example, within the biological level I don't think he'd say that 
a berry is "less moral" than a "fish". By this line of reasoning, 
inorganic patterns are the least moral things in the universe. This 
just does not make sense to me.

[Platt]
I wonder from the berry's point of view if it doesn't consider what 
the bear is doing to it as immoral. If I was a berry I would think so.

[Arlo]
If the berry could consider this, it would certainly be immoral. 
Since it can't, it isn't.

[Platt]
Also, what about my question, "Is it possible to leave man out of the MOQ?"

[Arlo]
I can presume that inorganic and biological patterns, for Pirsig, 
would continue to "be". Pirsig may disagree but I'd wager that some 
social patters would continue to exist within the mammal-animal 
kingdoms. For all intents and purposes, intellect would disappear. At 
least intellect as evolved as it is now, maybe very rudimentary 
patterns of intellect would continue (again, I know Pirsig would say 
no to this). So if the question is, would the conception of the MOQ 
exist without man, the answer is, of course, no. The MOQ is quite a 
complex intellectual pattern, and no such patterns have ever been 
witnessed emerging from any other species than man (yet?). If this 
does not answer your question, you'll have to rephrase it.