[MD] The End of Faith

[ian glendinning]

Gav, DMB,

I was about to respond to that same quote from Gav ... he has a point
worth preserving IMHO.

("Every belief contains a lie" - inspired, magic, excellent -
encapsulates my hypocrisy point pretty well spot on - I may quote you
Gav.)

I think we've established that here (and in Harris) "faith" is being
used in the "Blind Faith" / unquestioning sense, but we've also just
agreed there is a level of interpretation in what is claimed to be
believed over what may actually be believed. But we're playing
definitional games around the edges - as we always end up doing.

Perhaps I could re-word Gav's "Faith is experiential knowledge" ?
Are you trying to say "True faith (the quality kind, not the blind
kind) is faith in real experience (the Jamesian / Pirsigian,
participatory kind)".

Reclaiming a good word may be better that casting around for another -
there are never enough words to go round.
Ian

On 1/24/08, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> gav said:
> i think we need to use a different word. 'faith' doesn't fit the bill. 'faith' is experiential knowledge. 'belief' gets closer to what you are talking about - every belief contains a lie.
>
> dmb says:
> Faith is experiential knowledge? I don't think you'll find much support for that definition. The word can also mean loyalty, one's religion or express a certain level of trust but nobody thinks faith is experiential knowledge and the particular dictionary definition I'm using says faith is the very opposite of experiential knowledge. In any case, the problem that I'm talking about is belief in the absence of any such knowledge or even despite evidence to the contrary. Examples include the assertion that Jesus born of a virgin and died for your sins, that God created the world in 6 days just a few thousand years ago, and that communion wine turns into blood when a believer drinks it. That's the kind of faith I'm talking about, anyway.
>
> I think there is a much better way to refer to experiential knowledge. Why not just call it experiential knowledge? If that's what it is, wouldn't it just confuse things to call it faith? Aussie dictionaries and conventions can't be different to that extent, can they?
>
>
>
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