[MD] MOQ levels

[skutvik at online.no]

Ham and Steve

30 Jan. :
 
Ham originally:
> >If an organism is a biological pattern that is made up of matter,
> >which the MOQ considers "inorganic", why does the organism not share
> >this inorganic property?  An organism would be made up of minerals,
> >like phosphorous, calcium, and carbon, for example.  Logically, to
> >the extent that it contains such inorganic matter, it shares the
> >properties (or nature) of matter.

Steve:
> Biological patterns can't exist without inorganic patterns. The
> organism you are thinking of a collection of both types of patterns.

Bo agrees with Steve (for once ;-)
 
Ham originally::
> >Are you saying that because it is a "pattern" it is the intellect,
> >rather than Nature, which constructs an organism?

Bo:
First to the basics. Culture/Nature is one of intellect's S/O 
dichotomies. There is neither nature nor organisms in the MOQ 
only inorganic and biological patterns, and it's DQ that created 
the biological level from the inorganic level.   

> > Is it the general
> >concept that objects are patterns observed by the intellect only,
> >that is to say, that they have no independent existence? 

You may have had this impression from the distorted MOQ, but 
not in the true MOQ. Intellect has nothing to do with mind, 
thinking or consciousness. All levels have "independent static" 
existence, nothing about "do trees fall if no one observes .." or 
the more  advanced "Schrodinger Cat" variety. The MOQ 
dissolves all SOM-induced paradoxes. 

> > If so, do
> >the elements of chemistry and physics exist, or are they only
> >patterns too?

The MOQ just says that there are patterns of value and that' all it 
is concerned with, the various scientific disciplines'  classification 
is intellect's business and exists at that level as such. NB! Social 
existence surely had names for everything bur yours above was 
about elements of chemistry and physics.  
 
Steve:
> It is intellect that takes undivided experience and creates the
> pattern called "organism," but this is not to say that there is not
> real experience prior to the inference of this pattern. ....snip

Bo: 
Intellect (as science) classifies biological patterns  but "...intellect 
takes undivided experience and creates organisms" is nonsense. 
if it means "creates biological patterns". The biological level is 
DQ's second creation while intellect is its fourth.       

> The MOQ does not  even object to the idea that objects have an
> independent existence, it just points out that this is an idea, and
> like any other idea should be taken only so far as it is practical. 

In a metaphysics that rejects the subject/object divide, objects 
and subjects do not exist outside the former SOM, i.e. at the 
intellectual level. 

IMO

Bo