[MD] Is sex a vice or just a matter of change?

[David M]

Hi Steve

Generally no argument with that, although some experience
and knowledge of excess does have a value I might add, as does a banquet,
to mark something unusual and unique.

DM


> Hi David,
>
> I think that a vice could be described as a trait or tendency wherein
> a person takes an otherwise harmless DQ experience and allows it to
> shift their state of mind from a higher SQ to a lower SQ, through
> repetition, desire, addiction.  For example, here are the classic 7
> vices/deadly sins:
>
> Lust (what we've been talking about: excessive desire for sex)
> Gluttony (excessive desire for food)
> Greed (excessive desire for wealth)
> Sloth (excessive laziness)
> Wrath (excessive anger)
> Envy (excessive jealousy)
> Pride (excessive love of self)
>
> In each of these, a DQ experience could arise that includes one of
> these feelings, all of which are perfectly natural.  It all depends on
> how the person reacts to this DQ experience, which will determine if
> we are changed to a better SQ or a worse SQ (C.S. Lewis wrote in Mere
> Christianity that everything we do shifts/shapes our soul in one way
> or another).
>
> So, to answer the original question of the thread, sex is not a vice
> it is merely a DQ experience.  Desire for sex is an SQ state of mind
> which in excess would be a vice.
>
> Peace,
> State
>
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:49 PM, David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> 
> wrote:
>> Hi Steve
>>
>> Well I guess it is a matter of self-harm or harming others.
>> Of course, suffering is something we have to learn to live
>> with some of the time.
>>
>> DM
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hannon" 
>> <stevehannon at gmail.com>
>> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 5:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MD] Is sex a vice or just a matter of change?
>>
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> Yes, so then what is your definition of a vice?
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 5:52 PM, David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> Is not getting stuck and addicted not falling away from DQ and
>>>> into SQ without DQ? Does this not dull desire and remove
>>>> the true satisfactions of DQ?
>>>>
>>>> DM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [David M]:
>>>>> Does not desire cause us to change because it leaves us not the same?
>>>>>
>>>>> [Steve]:
>>>>> A desire can become a vice if we allow it to consume us, constantly
>>>>> occupying our minds, trying to satisfy it though never reaching a
>>>>> final state of satisfaction, allowing it to become an addiction.
>>>>>
>>>>> An addict with a particular desire I would say stays the same over
>>>>> time, or at least his state of mind stays the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Desire itself is not bad, only in excess is it bad.  I suppose i
>>>>> should have said lust is "excessive desire" instead of just "desire".
>>>>>
>>>>> Peace,
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Another thought. Is sex a vice? What makes it so?
>>>>>>>>> What makes something vicious? Is it when we lose
>>>>>>>>> control? When order is overcome or missing?
>>>>>>>>> Is vice and viciousness all a matter or vicissitude?
>>>>>>>>> Of, in other words dynamic change? Such are our
>>>>>>>>> inherited and perhaps questionable values.
>>>>>>>>> Vice,vicissitude, vicious -all same word origin apparently.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sex is a biological pattern of high value. it becomes a vice when 
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> transgresses higher value patterns
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David M
>>>>>>>>>
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