[MD] MeTaPhYsic of MaDneSs

[Ron Kulp]

[Platt]:
> To clarify -- any difference between "proprietary" and
> "individual" experience?

Ham;
No, none at all.   I throw in "proprietary" once in a while as a
reminder 
that all awareness is subjective (a word that Pirsigians dislike).  But
it 
hasn't done any good.


Ron apparently believes that human appreciation of value is a "mystical"

experience.

[Ron]:
I sure do, the illusion that is myself is indeed a special experience.
I try not to take any of it as "granted".

Ham:
What these comments tell me is that 'proprietary' has no meaning in
Pirsig's 
scheme of things.  The individual, like awareness, knowledge and
intellect, 
is just a pattern (or patterns) of cosmic quality without any cosmic 
significance.  They've discounted subjectivity -- the experiential locus
of 
reality -- and made it a byproduct of nature and collective society. 
Whatever value or morality means relates to the universe, not to man. 

Ron:
Man and the universe are one. They relate to both .. 

Ham:
Existence (their God) moves in strange ways toward "betterness", and we
must 
latch on to the collective intellect if we are to keep up.

Ron:
We must focus on immediate awareness if we want to keep up, 
god is one of many words, Dynamic quality some would call it,
aware in the moment, playing heads up, paying attention, 
situational awareness, value sensibility ect...


Ham:
Only intuitive logic can 
rise above experiential existence and allow a conception of ultimate 
reality.  Unfortunately, it isn't found in Pirsig's Quality heirarchy.

Ron:
'n thank f'n Christ for that..



Warmest regards,
Ron