[MD] Chance

[David M]

Hi Platt/Arlo

I'd suggest birds in the UK learning to drink out
of milk bottles left on doorsteps is pretty dynamic?

DM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden at davtv.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Chance


>> [Platt]
>> Thus, atoms once were able to respond to DQ but no longer can. Similarly,
>> animals could once but no longer can.
>>
>> [Arlo]
>> Did these animals have "free will"? Give me an example from any 
>> understanding
>> of animal science as to a behavior or ability animals had when the could
>> respond to DQ that they can no longer do. Were all animals able to 
>> respond to
>> DQ at some point? Or just a select few? Take "cats", go as far back into
>> paleohistory as you need, was there ever a "cat" that could respond to 
>> DQ? If
>> so, what was it able to do? Give me some evidence (or just speculate) 
>> about
>> something that DQ-cats "did" that they can no longer "do".
>
> If I could do that I would be some kind of hero to the evolutionists. 
> About
> all
> anyone can say is what Pirsig said: "What distinguishes all the species of
> plants
> and animals is, in the final analysis, differences in the way carbon atoms
> (proteins and DNA) choose to bond." (Lila, 11) Precisely when this took
> place in
> the case of cats or any other life form, including the first one, is
> anybody's guess.
>
>> Also, speculate, when did animals "lose" the ability to respond to DQ? 
>> Did they
>> suddenly lose this ability when "man" appeared? Did DQ-animals in North 
>> America
>> lose this ability when DQ-man appears for the first time in Africa? Or 
>> was
>> there an overlap, a time when on this planet there were DQ-animals and 
>> man
>> coexisting?
>
> Again,  I can't give you a specific time when lower life forms lost the
> ability to respond to DQ.  Nor can anyone else I would venture to say. 
> When
> did the semipermeable cell form? When did the shift occur from mitosis to
> meiosis to permit sexual choice? When did cells organize into metazoan
> societies called petunias and cats? When did animals acquire bones, 
> shells,
> hides, fur, burrows, etc. Your guess is as good as mine.
>
>> For me, cats were always "cats". They did not have some DQ-ability and 
>> then
>> lose it. They could always, as they do today, respond to DQ from within 
>> the
>> constraints and affordances of their biological boundedness (and given 
>> their
>> complexity within that level, for example, a "cat" has a greater 
>> repertoire of
>> responses to DQ than an amoeba, but both are limited by not having social 
>> or
>> intellectual existences).
>
> With the advent of human society and intellect, our ability to respond to
> DQ as individual, bounded life forms "emerged," leaving behind at the
> physical and biological levels overwhelming static patterns that have
> effectively stopped forces and forms at those levels from answering the
> call of DQ. Or, even if they can, being unable to do anything about it.
> (That's where the limits imposed by the levels come in.)
>
> Or so I believe based on my interpretation of the MOQ..
>
>
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