[MD] The End of Faith - Spirituality

[Platt Holden]

Hi Ron, 

> Ron:
> Hello Platt,
> I think I see where we disagree. If I remember from past posts
> You are of the opinion that what we experience everyday is reality
> The whole shebang, what we perceive is exactly what is there, nothing
> More, where I am of the mind that what we perceive is not the whole
> Picture, not only that, what limited portions we do perceive are
> Simplified and colored by the society we live in.
> This difference will set us apart in this discussion and
> Create some confusion about meaning. This is where 
> I am coming from when I say reality is more moral than the human
> Perception of it. 

I agree with Pirsig that what you and I perceive as reality is Quality 
influenced by our natural senses and individual history. Your belief in a 
reality "more moral than human perception of it" is nevertheless YOUR 
belief based on your individual perceptions of Quality. So I think we're in 
basic agreement about the foundation of reality. But, I could be wrong.  

> SA and I recently touched on this issue in the "this event" thread
> Where I tried to relay this concept. I will respect your opinion
> If you are set in it. I will not go Into it unless you are interested in
> doing so.
 
I would be interested in how you came to the conclusion that reality is  
more moral than our perception of it.  

> Platt:
> But, I thought your point was that in reality nothing is superior to 
> anything else. Have I mistaken your view?
> 
> Ron:
> In a way. What I mean is that in the perceptible world we live in
> Everyday superiority applies, value judgments describe our world.

I think we agree. Superiority applies in our world. 

> The patterns of energy that comprise it are defined by value too.

Here is where I lose you. Many values are static. Thus we have the
four moral levels that makes it more moral for a doctor to kill a germ than 
a germ to kill a doctor.    

> What defines superiority differs by every act of value atoms to
> thoughts.

Yes, but as above, we see a static pattern of values -- from atoms to 
thoughts with thoughts being morally superior to atoms. 

Am I correct in concluding that you disown and reject Pirsig's moral 
levels?

Platt