[MD] Mindwalk

[ian glendinning]

Really rushed just now Ham, but.

That "methodology" is only one aspect of science - a distinguishing
part, but not the whole.

"Cogito ergo sum" are only three of Descartes words, not everything he
ever intended on philosophy and knowledge.

Yes Liv / Sonja makes "liberal" statements - she's a liberal - but
can't you get passed that and look at the rest of the story - it's not
all she says ? If you don't agree with people 100% can you not make
any progress / see any value in them ?

The notion of society IS collective - get used to it. We are still
individuals with rights and responsibilties.

Etc, etc ...

Why pick on negative atoms, and ignore the positive whole ?
Ian

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 5:14 PM, Ham Priday <hampday1 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Ian --
>
>
> > Ham,
> > I've had other correspndence on another forum about this
> > oversimplification of the Descartes point .... but that is the very
> > point. With hindsight through a veil of cultural history, we see a
> > simplified (simplistic) caricature of many more subtle things
> > Descartes, Newton Kepler (and Aristotle) said - who cares
> > who "invented" science - it's an evolved imperfect accretion of
> > many ideas - what matters is what is good?
>
> Fair enough.  But the methodology of science is the acquisition of objective
> information by investigation, experimentation, and confirmation.  Descarte's
> claim to fame is his Cogito, 'I think, therefore I am.'  This was not
> acquired by objective investigation, but through subjective contemplation
> and intuitive intellection.  In fact, to develop this concept, he denied
> that anything could be validated except for himself.  Aristotle, Pythagoras,
> and the Stoics, on the other hand, looked for the essence of reality in
> objects, which led to the objective method of Kepler, Newton, Einstein, and
> scientists in general, at least prior to the advent of quantum physics.
>
> > Secondly, you're bringing your own free-market prejudice
> > to Sonja's position. (eg In your personal opinions about Sam
> > and Liv as "liberals") Nowhere does she expect the "government"
> > to "provide" the new vision. But by definition the government
> > (of the people by the people) must have an interest in encouraging
> > / nurturing the right kind of vision and values in the society it
> > represents. Let's not confuse the "social vs individual" issue again.
>
> I saw the philosophical theme of Mindwalk as holistic "inter-relatedness",
> which really doesn't apply to differentiated experience.  But it does apply
> to the notion of a collective society.  For me, Sonya's admonition that we
> must "stop the obsession with growth", using GM's profits as an example, was
> ingenuous and stood out like a sore thumb in this context.
>
>
> Regards,
> Ham
>
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