[MD] Zen

[Christoffer Ivarsson]

hello Platt
>
>> >> [Arlo]
>> >> Indecipherable code? Well, let me decipher this tough nugget for you,
>> >> Platt. I-B-S-I stands for "Inorganic-Biological-Social-Intellectual". 
>> >> You
>> >> know, Pirsig's MOQ. Contrasted with the I-B-I MOQ of Platt. Need help
>> >> with that? Inorganic-Biological-Intellectual.
>>
>> [Platt]
>> > You forgot that I strongly support the police and military in keeping
>> > biological forces under control. So as usual you're setting up a
>> > ridiculous straw man.
>>
>> But what you are doing is denying that the social level can be developed 
>> to
>> service the development of the intellectual level and mankind in general.
>
> Like Pirsig I see the social and intellectual levels in a battle for
> superiority. "The one dominating questions of this century has been, 'Are
> the social patterns of our world going to run our intellectual life, or is
> our intellectual life going to run the social patterns?' And in that
> battle, the intellectual patterns have won." (Lila, 21)



>> You see the social level as a necessary evil and something that we should
>> have as little of as possible. I am saying that it has been shown that
>> social level can be made to work under guiding intellectual principles 
>> that
>> does not prohibit Dynamic Development of the intellectual level, but 
>> rather
>> helps this development.
>
> I agree that the social level can be directed by the intellectual level to
> encourage intellectual development. The first step towards that goal is to
> prevent the social level from imposing conformity on the intellectual
> level. That's why Pirsig cited free speech and other laws protecting the
> individual as intellect vs. social patterns.


Indeed we may see free speech and such laws to be essential to the 
development of the intellectual level etc, that I agree with. But things are 
never black and white. For example free speech may be restricted so that 
racist propaganda isn't allowed to hurt people. This is an example where the 
social level is made to work on behalf of the intellectual level. Another 
example is good public schools, funded by taxes from all people living 
within a certain area - if the general education level is heightened that is 
certainly beneficial for the development of both that region and on a 
greater plane, the intellectual level. The welfare state is not an example 
of social patterns subduing intellectual, it is an example of how 
intellectual pattern are creating what social patterns seem fitting. The 
reasoning is simple: building a welfare-state we gain the advantage of 
security in our everyday lives - we know that since we have constructed 
society so, we will not end up with nothing in the gutter should we fail in 
for example our economic endeavours.  We know that everyone has the 
possibility to go to school, on equal footing, and follow up on their 
studies, even if someone comes from poor circumstances. Surely you see the 
benefit to the intellectual level here if we build a broader base. Certainly 
it must bee seen to that education and such is not subjugated to political 
or religious agendas, but that immune-system is something that is built into 
this system.

Do you see my point?

Regards

Chris