[MD] The Beginning of it All

[Krimel]

[Joe]
Sixth, this is a repetition but I think it is important. Krimel injects
reality with unpredictability but there is nothing to say that Krimel itself
can not be defined or even quantified.

[Krimel]
By golly we are on the same page after all. I would not have predicted that.



On 3/22/08 8:56 AM, "Krimel" <Krimel at Krimel.com> wrote:

> [Joe]
> I would like to be on the same page with you.  Aristotle was the first
> proponent of metaphysics.  He called it ³what comes after physics².  IMO
the
> laws of metaphysics can change the laws of physics.  E.G., Persig
> entertained a meaning for DQ which is undefined, that is only accessible
to
> metaphysics not physics.  It is a Conscious/Mechanical difference.  A
> conscious being evolves differently from an inorganic rock.  Different
laws
> apply. IMO the laws of order of evolution are found in existence, e.g.,
the
> universe.  Physics applies laws derived from the manifest in existence,
and
> denies an existential order to evolution.  This denies undefined DQ.
> 
> [Krimel]
> Perhaps it is language differences or perhaps it is different world views
> but I suspect we are not going to wind up on the same page. There are
major
> areas of difference in just this paragraph. First Aristotle never talked
> about metaphysics. The term was applied to a collection of writings put
> together by a later editor.
> 
> Second, Pirsig says the Quality is undefined. DQ is an aspect of Quality.
I
> see no reason why DQ can not be defined as rates of change, energy
> transformations, flow, charge etc.
> 
> Third, you insist on the term mechanical which implies to me invariant.
> Mechanical system are static and do not adapt well to dynamic change.
> Organic systems on the other hand are defined by their ability to adapt
and
> remain static in the face of change.
> 
> Fourth, yes a conscious being evolves differently from a rock but one rock
> evolves differently from another rock and one conscious being evolves
> differently from another. The laws are the same for all, only the
> circumstances vary.
> 
> Fifth, I do not think physics denies anything about the existential order.
> Biological evolution is a description of complex systems emerging from the
> laws of physics.
> 
> Sixth, this is a repetition but I think it is important. DQ injects
reality
> with unpredictability but there is nothing to say that DQ itself can not
be
> defined or even quantified.
> 
>  
> 
>