[MD] Dawkins quotes RMP on religion.

[skutvik at online.no]

Craig 

March 22. 

Bo before:
> > Gravity came to be with Newton
 
Craig:
> The LAW OF of gravity came to be with Newton.
 
The Newton/Gravity talks in ZAMM was what really shook my 
foundations when I read it for the first time. The said passage is before 
he starts about Quality - but I knew that this wasn't going be an 
ordinary reading experience. And the example is so to say the Litmus 
test to determine if a person understands the Quality Idea, and I see 
that you fail the test. 

What Pirsig says, and repeats in another passage later on, is that 
theories create our interpretation of the sensory "data" and the data 
that things fall to the ground has surely been interpreted in many ways, 
I only know that the Greek Physics had some notion of things  seeking 
rest and that can only be achieved on the ground. 

Your remark above is like John Sutherland's that gravity was there 
from eternity  for Newton to find the rules/laws of. This is SOM's 
(intellect's) view, namely that there is an inert physical reality "out 
there" that the human mind can unravel the "laws" of. But SOM is what 
the MOQ transcends and (IMO) makes into its own 4th. level. So 
what's the use of faking an understanding of the MOQ when even this 
most basic example is rejected?    

> [Bo]:
> > and Quality came to be with Pirsig
 
> He was several billion years later.

> Craig

OK, but ZAMM says that gravity came to be with Newton, it follows that 
Quality came to be with Pirsig. And there is nothing weird about that, 
except having infinitely greater ramification. The problem is that people 
go on believing that mind and matter retain their metaphysical capacity 
inside the MOQ. But that is not so, inorganic patterns of value (IPV) 
isn't substance. Pirsig goes to great lengths to demonstrate how the 
said IPV don't violate Quantum Mech. while substance does. 
Consequently none of the Q-levels corresponds to anything in SOM. . 

Your: "He was several billion years later." supposedly says that the 
Quality is from infinity, and regrettably Pirsig of LILA did not observe 
his own insights in ZAMM, and wanted us to believe that Quality has 
always been and that the MOQ is the mere "law" (like in your remark 
that Gravity has always been but the LAW came with Newton) had 
Pirsig been consequent and said that the MOQ creates the Quality 
Reality and in that reality there is neither "man" or "man's mind" or "our 
consciousness" where ideas exist of which the MOQ is one, but that 
this is its intellectual level all puzzle pieces would have been in place. 

OK more of Bo's "how to make friends and influence people" 
technique. ;-)

Bo