[MD] Psychiatry/Psychology

[skutvik at online.no]

Krim

On 10 May you wrote:

> [Bo]
> But Krimel mentions what's called psychotic conditions 
> and here the brain may be scanned and nothing abnormal found 
> so here a "mental" illness is postulated; a sick mind that 
> influences the body to do weird things - damage itself or others. 

> [Krimel]
> This is not true. Scans of individuals with schizophrenia and
> depression do reveal abnormalities, so do scans of the Dali Lama's
> monks. For example, the monks' scan show heightened activities in
> areas of the brain that produce feelings of compassion and well being.
> Even before scanning technologies the brain's role in thought and
> behavior was known through studies of people who had brain injuries or
> other abnormalities. The strange case of Phineas Gage was among the
> first of these.

Your inputs are so predicable as bordering on platitudinous. I 
don't deny that getting a metal rod through one's brain will cause 
anomalies not to speak of finalities. Nor do I deny what Spinoza 
called psychic/physical parallelism, that any thought or feeling or 
whatever SOM calls mental has a (what it calls) physical 
counterpart. 

The point is that the SOM has no "bridge" between the two 
realms, you may pursue the mental to the end of the world and 
never will it turn physical and vice versa. And SOM's creating 
paradoxes by this  "the twain shall never meet" yet meeting 
constantly is what the MOQ is out to mend by a different 
metaphysical split. But this is supposed to be known to people 
who discuss the MOQ and I am shaken to my foundations to 
learn how much many lack in being  "house clean".       

 
> [Bo]
> Krimel has not read LILA or failed to understand it on this issue - as
> on most issues. Pirsig's idea is that mental illness is a hoax because
> there is no isolated "mind", no more than isolated "matter" outside
> the intellectual level (this again shows the intellect=S/O validity)
> Psychology and psychiatry are part of intellect's immune system, those
> who don't behave objectively - reasonably - are insane. 
> 
> [Krimel]
> It is a shame to have to deal with MoQ novices like yourself, Bo.
> Where does Pirsig proclaim mental illness to be a hoax? He does
> express his own belief that treatment forced him to be less honest and
> more isolated from others. But his also says this:

You pay back my "insults", but here I am on solid ground. He 
does of course not call it a hoax, but it permeates the whole of 
LILA that he regards the psycho-industry to be a sham. Not being 
what it tries to appear as. It's real purpose is the said "immune 
system" attacking foreign "patterns". I deliberately don't say 
"foreign thoughts" because intellect is no thought level, but the 
very SOM that has the mental-subjective in one realm and the 
corporeal-objective in another with no bridge between them. And 
anything that threatens this arrangement is deemed ill.  

> "Now, years later, his resentment against what had happened in the
> hospital had lessened, and he began to see that there is, of course, a
> need for psychiatrists just as there is for cops. Somebody has to deal
> with the degenerate forms of society and intellect. The thing to
> understand is that if you are going to reform society you don't start
> with cops. And if you are going to reform intellect you don't start
> with psychiatrists. If you don't like our present social system or
> intellectual system the best thing you can do with either cops or
> psychiatrists is stay out of their way. You leave them till last."

Here he says it. His Quality Idea that overthrows the S/O or 
intellectual arrangement was perceived as dangerous, not by any 
intellectual police patrolling the streets but by his - Phaedrus' - 
own intellectual immune system that struck him down. His 
hospitalization and treatment were its  ... like the tyrant who is 
most benevolent to a surrendering enemies who prostrate 
themselves. Note also that he says that his mission were to 
reform intellect and because MOQ is opposed to SOM, 
INTELLECT=S/O. Again and again the SOL manifests itself. 
Write that on your blackboard ten times ... and the Wood Spirit 
too if it reads this.  

> Society does not and can not control what people think. There are no
> laws or codes of morality that treat what we think. Social, moral and
> legal codes cover what we do. They may cover how we express certain
> thoughts and how we act on them but they can not what we are allowed
> to think.

I never know if you speak of MOQ's levels or not? At least 
thoughts or ideas being intellectual "patterns" is SOM and their 
being free goes without saying because they aren't connected to 
anything. The 3rd.level is only concerned with behavior, that laws 
are expressed  by language is plain but only intellect sees them 
expressing ideas of this or that kind.    

> [Krimel]
> No where in the Old Testament does any prophet "prescribe their own
> godhead." I would argue that even in the New Testament when Jesus
> seems to do this, it is people putting words in his mouth that he
> obviously could not have said.

Are we to start Bible lessons now? Also here I'm fairly sure, but 
this is not important you will understand my point. Do you know 
Michael Foucault?  

Bo