[MD] Chance

[Ron Kulp]

Arlo: I think your assertion that "the MOQ is purely a metaphysics of 
'chance' " is contradicted by the following passage from Lila:

"On the other hand, the shift in cell reproduction from mitosis to
meiosis 
to permit sexual choice and allow huge DNA diversification is a Dynamic 
advance. So is the collective organization of cells into metazoan
societies 
called plants and animals. So are sexual choice, symbiosis, death and 
regeneration, communality, communication, speculative thought curiosity
and 
art. Most of these, when viewed in a substance-centered evolutionary
way, 
are thought of as mere incidental properties of the molecular machine.
But 
in a value-centered explanation of evolution they are close to the
Dynamic 
process itself, pulling the pattern of life forward to greater levels of

versatility and freedom." (Lila, 11)

Pirsig's explanation of evolution in Chapter 11 is based on the premise 
that the forces of DQ and SQ -- not chance -- account for the rise from 
amoeba to man.

Whether "pulling the pattern of life forward to greater levels of 
versatility and freedom" suggest an "intelligent designer" is open to 
interpretation. The very existence of Quality suggests a prior source of

some kind, although I recognize only too well the Truth of infinite 
regress. As for a plan, evolution towards greater freedom and
versatility
suggests a purpose if not an actual plan. 

The MOQ a metaphysics of chance? I don't think so, based on Pirsig's own

words. 

Ron:
Platt, Arlo, Krimel,

I think what is being forgotten is that first and foremost
MoQ is an intellectual pattern. With this in mind, I'd like
To dissect the Lila quotes. 

1.He speaks of Dynamic advancements
In evolution interpreted in a value centered way.

What You say? Dynamic is supposed to be "undefined"?

Then what in the hell is he talking about?

This is the first misconception of the DQ/SQ split
And this quote and the consequent argument is the evidence.

The DQ/SQ split has more explanatory power because it
Allows one to discuss Dynamic Qualities such as ie:
" cell reproduction from mitosis to meiosis 
to permit sexual choice and allow huge DNA diversification,
the collective organization of cells into metazoan societies 
called plants and animals. sexual choice, symbiosis, death and 
regeneration, communality, communication, speculative thought curiosity
and 
art." 


Most of these, when viewed in a substance-centered evolutionary 
way,(static-centered) are thought of as mere incidental properties of
the molecular machine."

Ron:
And that's just the argument you gents are having. That these
incidentals are by chance or design. DQ becomes this mysterious entity
which is
"pulling the pattern of life forward to greater levels of 
versatility and freedom." (Lila, 11)
when what really is pulling the pattern of life forward to greater
levels of 
versatility and freedom, Is the intellectual patterns of the dynamic
understanding of these qualities. Because DQ is just an intellectual
pattern
that describes experience.
So the argument between chance and purpose is an objective one. Not a
value centered understanding of concepts.