[MD] Truth and the Linguistic Turn

[David M]

Hi Ian/Ron

Do we all experience pain in the same way?

I remember reading about how for the ancients
Greeks, pain was an experience that provided the
opportunity to demonstrate how manly and herioc
they were. Not how I find myself experiencing it,
ouch, I want my mommy!

David M


> Interesting Ron, Arlo,
> 
> This is leading us to the "immediate participation before (typically
> objective)intellectualization" story (if we weren't already there),
> but Ron,
> 
> Why do you say it [the immediate response to Quality] "makes the MoQ
> questionable as to being axiomatic this way" ?
> Could you elaborate / explain that point ? Are you suggesting it is
> even more fundamental in some way than simply axiomatic of the MoQ ?
> (and hence the misundersanding with Bo in another thread)
> 
> Ian
> 
> On 5/14/08, Ron Kulp <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com> wrote:
>>
>> [Platt]
>> A particular person? Then why does Pirsig write, "Any person of any
>> philosophic persuasion who sits on a hot stove will verify without
>> any intellectual argument whatsoever that he is in an undeniably
>> low-quality situation: that the value of his predicament is
>> negative." (Lila, 5) Get it -- ANY PERSON.
>>
>> [Arlo]
>>
>> But, I will say, if Pirsig is implying that all humans with similar
>> biological constucts respond on the biological level to some
>> inorganic stimuli in more or less the same way, I would agree. Human
>> bodies biologically respond to "hunger" the same way (increased
>> stomach acid, energy deficiencies, etc). But each bounded organism
>> has its own unique threshold, its own unique responses, and over time
>> may come to "experience" hunger along a range of "low quality" to
>> "high quality" as this inorganic experience becomes mediated by
>> social and cultural patterns.
>>
>> When this monk sets himself on fire in intellectual protest, do you
>> see any evidence that he perceived his experience to be "low
>> quality"? (http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V3627)
>>
>>
>> Ron:
>> How co-incidental, I was thinking of that same footage when
>> Reading your post.
>> On a side note, I think your statement is accurate, we all respond to
>> Stimuli in more or less the same way and in that aspect we
>> Respond to Quality. we still like to think objectively
>> About this statement. All in all it is this response to Quality that
>> Makes the MoQ questionable as to it being axiomatic in this way.
>> The proof lies in the fact that we all respond to Quality.
>> Not equally as you state, but that instant "no thinking" response
>> Is something all of us shares. It's this commonality that is the most
>> certain In our experience.
>> What do you think this?
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>