[MD] Democracy

[Joseph Maurer]

On Saturday 01 November 2008 10:04 AM Bo writes to Horse:

> Hi Horse
> 
> 1 Nov. you wrote to Platt
> 
>> Just a minor point - why do equate reason (or "reason alone") >> with SOM.
Surely reason is an intellectual POV and not a whole >> metaphysical system.
> 
> Platt is most justifyed in equating SOM and Reason. Reason is
> objectivity itself (not in the usual "I have reason to          > believe...
etc.) but as "... contrasted with emotions and       > instincts" (as my
dictionary says) and translated into moqish    > becomes; (Intellect) as
contrasted with society and biology.    > Most apt. Show me one pattern you deem
intellectual that's not  > a S/O derivative. SOM is no metaphysical system after
being     > subsumed by the MOQ.
> 
> Bo 
 

Hi Horse, Bo, and all,

I search for meaningful analogies and metaphors to describe DQ/SQ to give a
fuller expression to a difficult Undefined/Defined, DQ/SQ metaphysics.  SOM
is a good analogy for undefined reason, an intellectual POV, since on this
list SOM has been shown to not equate to MOQ.

In my search I find Conscious/Mechanical metaphysics, to be a good analogy
to MOQ.  Magnus proposed a Big-Bang/Matter description for the inorganic
level.  I find that most apt since Big-Bang is also a good analogy to DQ.

How are Conscious, and Big-Bang analogous to DQ?  They both stand outside of
definition, and are descriptive terms. Everyone rightly assumes they are
Conscious. In a description of behavior I almost always equivocate between
mechanical-unconscious motivation and conscious-undefined motivation for my
behavior.  Only the latter requires SOL for a descriptive interpretation of
undefined, defined activity, the intellectual level.  For the former,
mathematics is a proper language.

Joe   



>> 
>> Platt Holden wrote:
>>> Hi Chris, 
>>> 
>>>   
>>>> I do not disagree that a lower level pattern may be overlaid and
>>>> controlled by a higher one, all I'm saying is that  intellect
>>>> doesn't control the social level only because we have democracy.
>>>> Intellect controls the social level when intellectual values are
>>>> always more central than social ones. I can imagine that when
>>>> everyone within a democracy let's rationality supersede social
>>>> level values every time they are in conflict - that would be the
>>>> ideal state for the intellectual level.
>>>>     
>>> 
>>> Two problems with relying on intellectual level rationality.1)
>>> Reason alone (SOM) doesn't provide a basis for moral judgments. 2)
>>> "So convenient it is to be a rational creature, since it enables us
>>> to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."  --
>>> Benjamin Franklin. Obviously 1 and 2 are related. Example: In the
>>> current presidential contest there is no lack of reasons on either
>>> side to cast one's vote.
>>> 
>>> Platt
>>> 
>>>   
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>>>   
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
>> arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but to skid
>> in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly
>> used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"...
>> Hunter S Thompson
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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