[MD] Trance state

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Steve

25 Nov. you said after I had said:

> > Not describing how things really are, is impossible. Forwarding a
> > theory that opens by declaring "..this is NOT how things are" is
> > stillborn.

Steve:
> Not at all. Albert Einstein ...etc.

Well then "how things really are" is as Einstein says.  
 
> Saying that the MOQ is not trying to say what things actually are is
> what it's like to not be able to comprehend the meaning of comparing a
> scientific model like F=ma with the universe or comparing words about
> Quality and Quality itself.

The MOQ was forwarded to show that SOM isn't "how things really 
are" and itself showing the correct context - provisional or not it's valid 
until further notice.     
 
> It is rather SOM that has no problem with making such comparisons--at
> least one taking the SOMist view thinks so. Newton's Laws of
> Gravitation are part of objective reality or are they just subjective?
> Pirsig points out the absurdity of either position in ZAMM.

SOM surely has problems, that's the very point. I would have liked to 
delve on the Newton point, but another time.

Bo before:
> > Anyway, this is what the MOQ
> > resolves by making the SOM its own topmost level (reduced to the
> > value of the S/O) and says that the reason why it produces paradoxes
> > is its static limitation. The above from LILA isn't wrong but very
> > cumbersome.

Steve:
> Let's be clear, the MOQ does not make SOM the intellectual level. Only
> the unnecessary and wrong-headed SOLAQI interpretation does this. The
> intellectual level of Pirsig's MOQ is the collection of all
> intellectual patterns of value.

Exhibit 1) In the P.T. letter Pirsig says  it's no use talking of the 
intellectual level much before the Greek thinkers and those spell SOM 
in a MOQ context. SOL confirmed.   

2) In LILA he says that around Homer's time the social level wasn't 
transcended by the intellectual one and in ZAMM the said time is when 
Aretê still ruled, before being replaced by SOM,  so in a MOQ context 
this must be the social level being replaced by the intellectual. Again 
plain SOL for those willing to see.  

Bo