[MD] Commie Talk and USA bashing?

[Andre Broersen]

Hello All,

I have noticed that there are differing opinions/ convictions about at which
level capitalism and socialism belong. Following Pirsig's advice I looked up
their definitions. These are from www.yourdictionary.com (I do not have a
dictionary I can 'lay my hands' on).

Capitalism:
an economic system in which all or most of the means of production and
distribution, as land, factories, communications, and transportation
systems, are privately owned and operated in a relatively competitive
environment through the investment of capital to produce profits: it has
been characterized by a tendency toward the concentration of wealth, the
growth of large corporations, etc. that has led to economic inequality,
which has been dealt with usually by increased government action and control

Socialism:
any of various theories or systems of the ownership and operation of the
means of production and distribution by society or the community rather than
by private individuals, with all members of society or the community sharing
in the work and the products

Pirsig on the intellectual level:
"...the greatest meaning can be given to the intellectual level if it is
confined to the skilled manupulation of abstract symbols *that have
no* *corresponding
particular experience* and which behave according to rules of their own" (In
A.McWatt's paper "A critical Analysis..." p79). Italics are mine because I
do not completely know what is meant by this.

However it appears to me that given this guideline both capitalism and
socialism belong to the *social level*...and so do governments/ the
political sector with their interventions (when needed), G8 Summits,
economic Think tanks, International and National Trade negotiations/
agreements. etc etc. to ensure some sort of  laissez "fairness"  the whole
operation i.e this is not intellectualising at the abstract level.
Their big difference being that capitalism has DQ as its built-in driving
force and socialism hasn't...and that makes the difference.

But this, of course, contradicts Pirsig's argument who places socialism at
the intellectual level.

(Without wanting to be facetious I have argued in an earlier post that
socialism does not exist...in actual practice. That is: it still is in the
realms of some people's imagination. I certainly don't see it from where I
am).


Of course I stand corrected in my interpretation.

Andre