[MD] Metaphysical issues: DQ

[Lord Arioch]

[Krimel]
Not quite so fast. There is nothing in any of this that mean DQ is
"constant". This just restates the DQ fallacy that Quality and DQ are one
and the same thing. Quality is left undefined in the MoQ. DQ and SQ are
properties by which we recognize Quality. It is true that Pirsig has added
fuel to the misconception of DQ as Quality but I don't think this is to be
taken seriously. 

Quality in ZMM is identified as "The Tao". The Tao is undefined but not for
some obscure mystical hocus pocus reason. It is undefined as the future is
undefined. It is not that it can not be spoken of. Lao Tzu speaks of it. It
is simply undefined in the sense that the future is undefined. There is an
element of uncertainty in all of our plans and schemes and dreams. This
undefined element can not be removed. Gödel in math and Heisenberg in
physics demonstrate that there are logical, measurable limits on what it is
possible to know without ambiguity. Lao Tzu recognized this 2500 years ago.
Heraclitus saw it as well. 


But no where and no one would be correct in saying that any two people ever
have the same experience of anything. James would argue that no single
person ever has the same experience of anything twice.

[Chris]
So, Dynamic Quality can't be spoken of in a direct manner, or incorporated 
into any understanding - right.

[Krimel]
Wrong! It is Quality that can not be spoken of but even then it is a matter
of probability. Quality can not be spoken of without probability of error.
But the probability of error can be estimated and specified. 
A:
The probability of error may only be calculated within a known system naive.


[Chris]
Well, it can't be incorporated into any understanding because as soon as
that happens it's static and it's not true anymore.

[Krimel]
Wrong again. Just because something happened the past does not render it
static. The past is just as fluid and dynamic as the future. 


A:
Fool! Experience is a constant, . No expereince, no existence.
Past and future exist as abstract patterns! truth is experience! 
the universal experience of biological quality. It may be nothing
more and it may be infinitly less. hehhhehehe wizard you venture
far from your homeland to a place where your conjurings fail you.



The most universal empirical constant is expereince, thus spake Pirsig.


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