[MD] patterns revisited

[MarshaV]

At 05:03 PM 10/19/2008, you wrote:
>Marsha,
>
>     Here's one reason why I've always had difficulty believing
>all static patterns are conceptual.  That's why I talk about tiny skull.
>The universe is bigger than what's in our head, thereby pointing out
>that what is in our head:  thoughts, concepts, intellectual static patterns
>of value, are not all that we can come up with about this world.  Trees


Hi SA,

I thinking the levels are categories of patterns:  inorganic, 
biological, social and intellectual.  My idea is that all patterns 
are conceptual, but are referring to something.  In the case of 
inorganic and biological, these patterns have as their referent 
external, natural phenomenon, such as what you are calling trees, or 
as I might be calling granite.  Social and intellectual patterns are 
conceptual patterns pointing to concepts/ideas, such as Socialism and 
theoretical mathematics.

Try this.  If you strip away all concepts(name, definition, 
attributes, etc.(all concepts)) from a tree, what is left?  Pure, 
direct experience (value, quality).

The value that the static pattern of value represents is not a 
tree.  A tree is not a thing.  It is a process without  a name, 
boundaries, or a beginning and end.  It is for human convenience that 
we isolate and assign concepts to processes.

Pure direct experience seems to be the senses and 
emotion/feeling.  The third value distinct from mental and physical 
is the emotion value: fear, beauty, etc.

Static patterns seem to carry a memory of emotions/feelings.  This 
might be carried as body intelligence.  They don't seem to be in the head.

What do you think?

Am I sounding like a nutcase?

Marsha










>are here too:
>
>ZMM (Chapter 25):
>"This inner peace of mind
>occurs on three levels of understanding.
>Physical quietness seems the easiest
>to achieve, although there are
>levels and levels of this too, as attested by
>the ability of Hindu
>mystics to live buried alive for many days. Mental
>quietness, in
>which one has no wandering thoughts at all, seems more difficult,
>but can be achieved. But value quietness, in which one has no
>wandering desires
>at all but simply performs the acts of his life
>without desire, that seems the
>hardest."
>
>woods continues:
>     I'm particularly noticing that mental or thoughts, concepts are one
>way of understanding, at least in accord with this excerpt from ZMM.
>Values, including intellectual static pattern of values, are something
>distinct from only thoughts or concepts.  Thoughts and concepts are
>intellectual values, but mental quietness is another value of intellect.
>Also, all the other static patterns of value:  inorganic, organic, 
>social, thereby
>are not intellectual static pattern of value (spov).  These are 
>values, not mental.  Up
>above Pirsig is pointing out physical, mental, and a distinct third level of
>understanding called value.
>
>
>woods
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>Moq_Discuss mailing list
>Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>Archives:
>http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/

.
.
The Universe is uncaused, like a net of jewels in which each is a 
reflection of all the others in a fantastic, interrelated harmony without end.
.
.