[MD] patterns revisited

[MarshaV]

At 10:58 AM 10/21/2008, you wrote:


> >woods previously:
> >    Are you trying to formalize or put into a formula what is
> > valued?  Are you trying to find a way to put into a formula how 
> we are connected and
> >interrelated with this world?
>
>
>Marsha:
>I thought you wanted to change the discussion from the nature of
>spovs to how value creates subject and objects.  So:  When a tree is
>experienced (valued), the tree (object) exists and the I (subject),
>who experienced the tree, exist.  Experience (value) creates both
>subject and object.  Does my statement not belong in this discussion?
>
>
>
>woods:
>     Oh, I see what you mean.  Thanks.  Your statement does belong
>in this discussion.  What do you mean by "nature of spov's"?
>     How "value creates subject and objects" is not what I'm referring too.
>You are correct on this.



>For if we are to look into this "nature of spov's", or
>spov's in any way, then we are not to take that step into creating 
>subject and
>object, though, without taking that step into subject and object I find that
>we look into valuing (itself) or the valuing process we find 
>inorganic, organic,
>social, and intellectual spov's.
>We find these different spov's valuing without
>expanding into the subject and object aspect created out of this 
>valuing process.
>This valuing process is before subject and object.  This valuing 
>process is intellectual,
>social, organic, and inorganic, also, dynamic valuing.  I see a difference.

Yes, there are many ways to value spovs.  I am considering the 
ontology of spovs.  Their nature.


>Marsha:
>Of course patterns change.  The tree pattern of me is different than
>the tree pattern of you, but there is probably some sameness and
>overlap too.  Yes, yes, patterns are constantly changing.
>
>woods:
>    This might be a "nature of spov's" that you were referring too.  "change"

Yes.  To my understanding everything is ever-changing.




>Marsha:
>I, too, had found quietness before I read ZMM.  I had been practicing
>yoga and meditating for a couple of years.
>
>woods:
>Even the word quietness?  You knew and spoke this word:  quietness?  I find
>this interesting if you did, even if not, since Pirsig did, I did, I 
>find this word
>is somewhat of a more common usage due to experience by numerous people.
>This might delve into another nature of spov, not sure yet.

A hatha yoga class starts with a guided meditation to quiet mind and 
body.  The exact word 'quietness' was often used.  I was taking 
classes to become a yoga teacher, so I am very familiar with the 
concept as a potential teacher, a student and a meditator.  I used 
this type of guided meditation with non-yoga groups too.



>Marsha:
>What seemed to be happening is that you preferred a different
>topic.  That's fine, your topic is interesting, and it doesn't take
>anything away from my interest in the nature of patterns.
>I'm going to start looking into the relationship between the MOQ and
>time.  I found Ant's paper, and it seem like a good place to start.
>
>http://robertpirsig.org/MOQTime.htm
>
>
>
>woods:
>     Maybe time will help in this nature of spov's your valuing.  You
>see I feel we are each moving along a certain pretractory, if you will,
>in which our valuing is moving us along.  We come across a valuing
>process of another person or tree or what have you, and our valuing
>may change, expand, or be confirmed.  If we come across another
>valuing that is different, then there are so many events they may
>emerge from such a meeting of differing values.  I'm focusing
>on these values we are each introducing to each other.  To say
>your focusing on patterns, but from what orientation.  Your mentioning
>time.  That is good.  Time is a certain/specific value that influences
>the pattern in which a value will be.  In other words, when you read up
>on time, then your valuing, the values you will find (thus, not only you),
>will be patterned in accord with Time.  Value is open to anything.  If you
>are learning about Time, then the pattern you'll find will be Time and Time
>will be the valuing process.  Thus, the valuing process if you stay 
>with Time,
>will be a valuing process that values Time.

It'a valuing ever-changing, collections of overlapping, interrelated, 
inorganic, biological, social and intellectual, static patterns of 
value.  Yes?



>    I'm finding a pattern, the pattern, or patterns will be a 
> pattern of what is being
>valued.  Thus, with Time, the pattern you'll find will be Time for 
>that's we're value
>is leading you to go, if you do go there.  So all the patterns 
>you'll notice will
>be about Time.  Now say, you delve into numbers, well then, patterns 
>will become
>all about numbers for that's we're the valuing process is going or 
>happening at that
>moment.  A tree has a pattern when in how its' branches reach in a 
>certain direction.
>Patterns happen in accord with the valuing process that is 
>occuring.  Patterns are traced
>out by certain/specific values.  Quiet valuing has no specific 
>patterns.  I'm not saying
>the goal has to be quiet valuing or to find out the nature of 
>spov's.  We'll learn
>all kinds of stuff in life.  And life will emerge in all kinds of 
>ways, thus, pattern into
>all kinds of ways.  I bring up quiet valuing as a point of 
>orientation in which patterns
>emerge from.
>
>   Maybe?


My life is quiet.  But more zazen.  More going nowhere.  Lately, I've 
been singing this lullaby to myself.


Marsha




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The Universe is uncaused, like a net of jewels in which each is a 
reflection of all the others in a fantastic, interrelated harmony without end.
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