[MD] Virtually meaningful?

[Arlo Bensinger]

[Marsha]
Maybe Arlo will tie this all back to the MOQ.  Or maybe not.  Either 
way, I need some space.

[Ron]
I can relate,,,,

[Arlo]
Well... the MOQ really only talks about the self as a "software 
reality" that exists only through culture. As such I think there are 
certain cultural structures as to the nature of the "self" that are, 
in any particular culture, valuable. One in ours is most certainly 
"continuity". We value it, we expect it, we recoil when it is 
shattered. But we should never forget that this is an artificial 
expectation, a cultural syntax, a social "rule" we more-or-less abide 
by and not the absolute nature of the "self" in and of itself.

Its also a fascinating topic considering what Pirsig describes having 
experienced in ZMM. When Pirsig's corporeal host was electo-shocked, 
and the "old Pirsig" was eliminated and replaced by a "new Pirsig", 
where is the "real self"? Was Bob killed and reborn as someone else? 
Is it "the same person" because both selves inhabited the same gray 
matter of the same corporeal body?

I also think it speaks to the value of the interaction. I never met 
Chris. Never have and never will. I know vaguely what his corporeal 
host may have looked like. Yet I've never spoken to him directly. And 
yet "he" has value to me. And so I ask, what is the "he" that has 
value? And I answer, the "he" that has value is the pattern of 
dialogue that exists in my memories that he was a part of. What "he" 
is or was "in real life" has (and I emphasize) NO BEARING WHATSOEVER 
on this value. If I would learn tomorrow that Chris was really a 
daughter made into a son for narrative purposes by the author, the 
"Chris" that is real and has value TO ME would be unchanged. It has 
no correlation with the corporeal host whatsoever, and no relation to 
any "other Chris" that may have shared that same corporeal body.

Whatever our spin on identity is, I don't think we can deny its very 
complex. I was watching a television show this weekend about a 
teenage boy who was a "girl inside". What's the reality? Is it a girl 
trapped in a boy's body, or a boy that thinks he is a girl? What is 
the "real person", a boy or girl? What if he had a sex change 
operation? Would he be a "boy  who is pretending to be a girl"? Or 
would she really be a girl?

I get continuity. Really. I get it. I post under "Arlo" here every 
time rather than a new name/account with each post because I cherish 
the social rewards that such continuity brings. Continuity adds order 
to an otherwise cacophonous chaos. But I think its a mistake to 
confuse this social agreement with some deep reality about a "real 
self", and then to further mistakenly tie that self to the form of a 
corporeal body.

The reality is always that the others we interact with are always 
contextual presentations of a self bound to that arena. Whatever form 
SA's corporeal host takes, whether female or male, for me SA is 
"male" because this is the presentation he gives and I accept. I 
don't care if its "really" a Heather on the other end "pretending" to 
be a Nick. That is, quite frankly, unimportant to me. What matters is 
the SA that I know and care about and accept as "real" because of his 
value to me. Now if I wanted to make babies with that body, then it 
would matter and it would be meaningful to know the biological form 
"his" corporeal form takes. And that part of "our co-reality" would 
have meaning. And if I was deceived I'd find that dishonest. It 
wouldn't matter to me if "Heather" was a female self inhabiting a 
male body if my goal included mating with "Heather". On the other 
hand, if "Heather" was just a friend and I found out her body was 
male, and found it meaningful to ask, and "Heather" told me she was a 
girl trapped in a male body, I'd be okay with that. "She" would still 
be "Heather" to me, even though her corporeal body is male and is 
legally named "Nick".

But maybe that's just me... maybe you or others would refuse to 
accept any self as real other than the one corporeal host with a 
declared legal name under any context. I'd be curious as to how you'd 
handle gender surgery and a legal name change, though, would 
"Heather" then suddenly become "real"?