[MD] The Quest for Quality

[Joseph Maurer]

On Thursday 18 September 2008 1:05 PM Ham answers Joe:
 
[Ham]
The individual is a being-aware.  Awareness is not "collective" but is
proprietary to the individual.  The object of awareness is what the
individual experiences.  But the sentient individual never "rises above
individuated awareness".
 
[Joe]
Being-aware seems to be your doctrine. How does it apply to an individual
stone?
 
[Ham]
In other words, we each construct our own universe from the value(s) of
which we are sensible. And, since value is derived from a common source
(Essence), the quantitative properties of existence are the same for all.
 
[Joe]
As a plumber for many years I had to get a license or permit from the State,
County or City to work at my profession.  I did not construct my own
license.  I do not know from whom I would get a permit to try to construct a
universe from values.
 
[Ham}
I'm not sure I can convince you, but it doesn't stop me from trying.
 
[Joe]
What am I to you? I think you are a year older than I am so I suppose I have
to respect my elders.  Unfortunately I learned disrespect at an early age!
I am sorry!
 
[Ham]
For example, I might ask you if there is such a thing as unrealized Quality.
If not, then quality is an attribute of man's awareness rather than the
essence of reality.
 
[Joe]
³unrealized Quality² might not be a thing but a Quality.  Yes, I think
evolution is valuable over time.  Do you deny the existence of Quality?  I
guess you are not a Quality person.  To each his own!
 
[Ham]
Also, my understanding is that are four levels in the MoQ: Inorganic,
Organic, Social, and Intellectual.  What are the extra three?
 
[Joe]
I am a singer. I model evolution according to an analogy to the intervals of
the musical octave.
 
[Ham]
And what do they have to do with "revelation"?
 
[Joe]
You brought it up with a quote of ³seeing through a glass darkly² from the
bible.  
 
[Ham]
How you categorize existence matters less to me than how you perceive it.
Is existence your ultimate reality, or is it derived from a primary source?
 
[Joe]
It was my opinion that an order in existence was the basis of my perception
of existence.  I concluded that Scripture was the basis of your perception
of existence.
 
[Ham]
If the appearance of existential phenomena is experience, then isn't their
apparent evolution a result of the observer's temporal mode of experience?
 
[Joe]
I would argue that their apparent evolution is an apparent order in
existence.  The experience of the appearance of existential phenomena is my
experience of reality.
 
Joe



On 9/18/08 1:05 PM, "Ham Priday" <hampday1 at verizon.net> wrote:

> Greetings, Joseph --
> 
> 
>> You ask Bo: "Do you believe that this ordered universe,
>> 'the metaphysical equivalent to Newton's physical revolution',
>> exists independently of its realization by the cognizant mind?
>> In other words, can a universe exist without sensible awareness?"
>> 
>> You tell Marsha: "It is existence which is differentiated and
>> transient." And you give the reason for the affirmation:
>> "And this is because the locus of subjective experience --
>> individuated awareness -- is detached from the essential
>> source, thus limited in its perspective."
>> 
>> I ask you Ham, How does an individual sentient rise above
>> individuated awareness?  Your answer is revelation describes
>> the essential source by analogy. In biblical terms, we "see
>> through a glass, darkly."
> 
> The individual is a being-aware.  Awareness is not "collective" but is
> proprietary to the individual.  The object of awareness is what the
> individual experiences.  But the sentient individual never "rises above
> individuated awareness".  In other words, we each construct our own universe
> from the value(s) of which we are sensible.  And, since value is derived
> from a common source (Essence), the quantitative properties of existence are
> the same for all.
> 
>> IMO DQ is undefined in that it acknowledges an evolution
>> in existence of seven levels.  That is not in revelation.  God
>> is in revelation!  Does God evolve?  I surmise your answer
>> is NO! and your have the source for "essence". This is your
>> belief system.  Why do you feel you can convince me
>> (a member of MOQ_discuss) that your belief is more real
>> than a DQ/SQ metaphysics?
> 
> I'm not sure I can convince you, but it doesn't stop me from trying.  For
> example, I might ask you if there is such a thing as unrealized Quality.  If
> not, then quality is an attribute of man's awareness rather than the essence
> of reality.
> 
> Also, my understanding is that are four levels in the MoQ: Inorganic,
> Organic, Social, and Intellectual.  What are the extra three?  And what do
> they have to do with "revelation"?  How you categorize existence matters
> less to me than how you perceive it.  Is existence your ultimate reality, or
> is it derived from a primary source?  If the appearance of existential
> phenomena is experience, then isn't their apparent evolution a result of the
> observer's temporal mode of experience?
> 
> Regards,
> Ham
> 
> 
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/