[MD] Science: Medicine?

Thu Sep 25 19:10:37 PDT 2008

hope you don't mind me jumping in here -
but there is some wonderful research 
available by Dr. Sherry Rogers - a board certified
AMA Dr. with over 30 years of experience as
a practicing physician -- GP specializing in allergies
and environmental medicine.

One of her notable books is called:

The Scientific Evidence for Selected Environmental Medical Techniques
which has hundreds of referenced scientific journal 
articles from among others Harvard Medical, Journal of AMA,
New England Journal of Medicine, etc. 

I have heard her speak before and taped her lectures. 

Her point of view (and also that of Dr. Neal Barnard) 
is that unquestionably our exposure to 
environmental toxins has lowered our nutrient levels -
AND our nutritional daily requirements are based on 
population averages and not the true 
the cattle association, the cheese association and 
other lobbying associations encourage regulations
based on what's good for their industry 
rather than true research. 

I know that I have done some simple things: 1) I use
water stored in glass 2) I buy all organic as much as possible. 
Locally grown organic is the best. 
3) have added some basic supplements to my daily regimen. 
4) avoid buying and storing things in plastic/ heating or freezing in
plastic. 

AND I KNOW that I am much healthier than I was 2 years ago. 
No question. 

She's got some other great books as well. 

Its basically just common sense - eliminate the toxins, increase
nutrients. Here idea is to go for the CAUSE of illnesses - not 
just treat the symptoms. Her work is based on molecular medicine -
so she looks at HOW the body deals with all of these drugs and why
our medical system is so screwed up. 

The people who write the practice guidelines - which is what all drs are
supposed to follow are almost ALL on the boards of some pharmaceutical
company or another. 

and yes - I can definitely taste the difference between organically
grown produce and chemically treated produce. Or lets just say that
over time - after I've been eating at home - as much 'clean' food as
possible - I definitely can tell/experience the 'chemicals' in 
food from restaurants and stuff. 

MM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org [mailto:moq_discuss-
> bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of gav
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:41 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Science: Medicine?
> 
> 
> the fact that we are having this discussion illustrates, amongst other
> things, a lack of quality awareness on krimel's part, with respect to
> food.
> if you don't eat good food then you usually believe that what you are
> eating is good...how can you know what you are eating is shit if you have
> no experience of good food?
> in my american travels with dave, rebecca and ant i must say i found the
> standard of food generally poor, and often horribly laced with chemicals
> and sweeteners (a fruit smoothie with sugar added!-crazy man). and i know
> a bit about shit food - i grew up in england.
> so i presume krimel that you are not exactly an epicurean...fair enough,
> can be costly these days. but growing your own is the cheapest and best
> quality u will ever have (and i don't mean just food!)
> g
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 26/9/08, Krimel <Krimel at Krimel.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Krimel <Krimel at Krimel.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MD] Science: Medicine?
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Received: Friday, 26 September, 2008, 6:19 AM
> > [Krimel]
> > I know you and many others are attracted to organic produce
> > but I
> > have to say there is little or no evidence that the
> > products of the
> > "Green Revolution" are less nutritious, less
> > tasty or in the least bit
> > harmful.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > Well, I won't refer to any "studies" here,
> > but I will say that my own
> > experience with tomatoes has been that those I grow or get
> > from our
> > CSA are exponentially more tasty than those red tennis
> > balls that
> > grocery stores call "tomatoes". Indeed, it is
> > primarily taste that
> > keeps me in our CSA. If I didn't think the produce
> > tasted so much
> > better, I wouldn't eat it. That said, it doesn't
> > need to be CSA
> > foods, the local corn we get from Amish farmers (who are
> > mostly
> > organic, if not certified so) if far superior in taste to
> > what passes
> > for corn in the stores. And here's a challenge. Go out
> > and buy a
> > carton of Organic Valley milk (any variety), and a carton
> > of whatever
> > the big name dairy milk is in your area. Taste them side by
> > side. If
> > you can honestly tell me that the Organic Valley milk is
> > not better
> > (if not greatly better), I'd be very surprised.
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > My father-in-law loves to tend a garden and I admit that
> > his squash and
> > beans are especially tasty but I don't see any
> > difference but price between
> > the produce in the "organic" section of my
> > grocery store and the regular
> > factory farmed produce. It is really just a matter of being
> > too lazy to go
> > to the farmer's market, I suppose but I like my grocery
> > store.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > What studies I have seen on nutrition talk more about the
> > gradual
> > loss of vitamin and nutrient content as produce is packed
> > and
> > shipped. This makes the case for local foods when possible.
> > A head of
> > broccoli picked this morning contains more nutrients than
> > broccoli
> > picked days ago, packed and shipped, or frozen and stored
> > for weeks.
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > Sure, I suspect you are right but you nailed it below.
> > Arguing the relative
> > merits of growing technique is a luxury afforded only to
> > those living in
> > affluent countries.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > With regards to chemical farming, pesticides and other
> > additives, I
> > can only say that even if you could show me that consuming
> > tomatoes
> > sprayed with pesticides was "not harmful", the
> > sum total of these
> > chemicals being introduced into the environment gives me
> > sufficient
> > pause. That trace elements of pesticides (or other chemical
> >
> > fertilizers) make their way into our meat, eggs, and even
> > our
> > drinking water is just something I can see no good in,
> > especially
> > over a long haul or lifetime.
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > I agree that argument has face validity and I rather
> > assumed that it was at
> > least likely. The lecture really just forced me to question
> > the assumption
> > and when I think about it (as opposed to actually looking
> > it up) I know of
> > no evidence to suggest that these traces actually have any
> > adverse effects.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > And finally, regarding GMOs, I think even the most ardent
> > opponents
> > to GMOs recognize a difference between longterm breeding of
> > a plant
> > for particular traits (which was done unconsciously by our
> > early
> > socializing ancestors- see Guns, Germs and Steel for
> > example) and the
> > splicing of genes from fish our animals into plants. If a
> > strain of
> > rice could be cultivated that contains 15% more vitamin B,
> > for
> > example, I doubt many would object. But, to get that from
> > splicing
> > fish genes into the rice is a price too high for many
> > (myself
> > included). Of course, I speak from a nation of privilege,
> > with
> > abundant food and ample choice. If I lived in a
> > famine-laden African
> > country, I wonder if I'd be so concerned about whether
> > or not my rice
> > contained fish genes.
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > I suspect that given the choice between products labeled
> > "natural" or "GMO"
> > I too would grab the "natural" product. But I do
> > question whether this is
> > just conditioning or whether it really is sensible. After
> > all what
> > difference does it make whether it takes 100 years or two
> > weeks to
> > genetically modify something? And really what does
> > "natural" mean as it
> > related to food packaging?
> >
> >
> >
> >
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